Dr. Jeff Quebec: Prep School Admission Secrets

Dr. Jeff Quebec has lived this world from the inside. He has worked in prep school admissions and leadership for decades, spent years at Eaglebrook, and now advises families as an educational consultant. In this episode, Jeff breaks down the stuff parents usually learn too late.

💡Key Topics:
 📌 Prep school admissions process, decision timelines, yield strategy
 📌 Interview prep, campus visits, first impressions, student driven narrative
 📌 Junior boarding school pathway, secondary school counseling, reclass timing
 📌 Financial aid strategy, net tuition revenue, committee decision factors
 📌 Academics vs brand names, hidden gem schools, right fit selection
 📌 Athlete recruiting context, coach turnover, program stability, long term fit

🏀 About Dr. Jeff Quebec:
 Dr. Jeff Quebec is a longtime prep school admissions leader and educational consultant with decades in independent schools. He also runs the Pre-Prep Showcase and hosts the Why Boarding School podcast focused on school fit and the boarding school experience.

🔗 Connect with Dr. Jeff Quebec:
Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/whyboardingschool
Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/PrePrepShowcase
Facebook | https://www.facebook.com/WhyBoardingSchool
Facebook | https://www.facebook.com/preprepshowcase/
LinkedIn | https://www.linkedin.com/company/why-boarding-school
LinkedIn | https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffreyrquebec/
Twitter | https://x.com/whyboarding
Twitter | https://x.com/PrePrepShowcase
TikTok | https://www.tiktok.com/@whyboardingschool
YouTube | https://www.youtube.com/@whyboardingschool
YouTube | https://www.youtube.com/PrePrepShowcase
Email | info@WhyBoardingSchool.com
Website | https://quebec-consulting.com/
Website | https://preprepshowcase.com/
Website | https://preprepshowcase.com/

🔗 Connect with Cory:

Website | https://www.prepathletics.com
Twitter | https://twitter.com/PREP_Athletics
Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/prep.athletics/
Facebook | https://www.facebook.com/PrepAthletics
Email | coryheitz@gmail.com
Phone | 859-317-1166

🔖 Subscribe to the PREP Athletics Podcast:

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Chapters

• 1:35 Jeff begins his prep school admissions journey
• 3:29 What truly differentiates boarding and prep schools
• 6:51 The non-negotiable rule: academics first, even for athletes
• 8:32 Junior boarding schools explained and who they are best for
• 10:18 Why families consider boarding school before high school
• 11:51 Structure, relationships, and development in middle school years
• 13:30 How junior boarding students transition into secondary schools
• 15:08 What educational consultants actually do for families
• 21:22 Admissions interviews: what helps and what hurts
• 24:32 Campus visits, presentation, and first-impression mistakes
• 28:31 Why March 10 matters in prep school admissions
• 30:55 Common misconceptions families still believe
• 31:53 Fit vs rankings, brand names, and hidden-gem schools
• 38:51 Ivy League myths and pipeline realities
• 45:19 Red flags families unknowingly raise in admissions
• 46:25 Choosing between multiple offers and what questions to ask
• 48:41 Financial aid realities and how schools allocate money
• 51:05 Inside admissions committees and net-tuition thinking
• 57:16 Waitlists: what they really mean and how to handle them

Transcript

Cory Heitz (00:00)
Welcome to this week's episode of the Prep Athletics podcast. I'm proud to have joining us Dr. Jeff Quebec. Now, Jeff Quebec has been doing ⁓ work in the educational consulting space and he also has been in the prep school admission world for a long, long time. He was at Eagle Brook for a long time, which is a junior boarding school across from Deerfield Academy. Then he worked at Mcduffie school. He worked at Cushing Academy. He worked at Cats Academy and now he's on his own as an educational consultant.

He has been helping hockey players get into prep school for 32 years with an event he has called pre-prep. And we ask him a lot of questions that we don't usually talk about on this podcast. We ask about behind the scenes of the admission network, how to do interviews, what to wear on campus, why visiting is so important and so much more. So really good, really good podcast. I learned a lot from it. Get your pen out to get ready to take some notes. And, I think you'll enjoy this one. If you'd like this podcast, do me a favor.

Right? We put it on for free. We don't have any ads. Share it with somebody. Share it with someone out there that you think will enjoy this or might like it, or might want to learn more about the PrepSchool world. And that would really help us out a lot. We appreciate that. And now for a podcast with Dr. Jeff Quebec here in the PrepAthletics podcast. Thanks for tuning in.

Cory Heitz (01:33)
Jeff, welcome to the podcast.

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (01:35)
Thanks Cory for having me. I appreciate it. It's great to be here.

Cory Heitz (01:37)
Yeah,

it's good to have you on. We've known each other for some years now and you being in the admission world. I would love to just pick your brain on some of the stuff that a lot of our families ask. And I think that families need to know, but to start it off, what got you into the prep school world to begin with?

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (01:52)
Yeah, great question. So I think, first of all, I always like to say is I'm a proud product of public school. Having graduated from public school, I thought I had a great education, but certainly I think as a lot of us know that unfortunately, public school isn't always what it used to be back then. It's changed a lot. And so my sister and I went to public school and my younger brother went to independent boarding school. He went to actually Dearfield Academy. And that was really my first exposure learning about, I knew about independent schools growing up outside of Boston, but more so on the day school side of it, not to say the boarding side of things.

And so I used to go visit my brother at school. during that time, a lot of the dorm parents were close to age, we're very similar age. Used to come visit him and that night I'd find myself, well, the kids were going down for bed. I'd be hanging out and speaking with the dorm parents and kind of picking their brains. What's this all about? This triple threat concept, teacher, coach, dorm parent. I became really intrigued by it.

Cory Heitz (02:42)
How come your brother went to prep school when you and your sister didn't? What was the logic on that?

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (02:46)
Yeah, great question. And certainly there were a lot of questions being asked at the time, especially among my parents, like is something wrong with your marriage? know, something wrong with your child? Like your other two kids are fine. Why is he going to boarding school? and it is actually, it was an athletic decision. And while certainly it was important not to be sacrificing academics, it was driven really through ice hockey and it was an opportunity to not only compete at a higher level, but also, gain more exposure.

So that really ended up being a great opportunity, not only getting a quality education, but also leading to Division I scholarship offers. And my brother went on to play at Boston University.

Cory Heitz (03:14)
Absolutely.

perfect. Great story. Great story. And in your opinion, what makes prep school so special?

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (03:29)
Well, I think there's a lot of things actually. So I've been fortunate enough to have had decades of experience working in independent schools. And then also my doctoral dissertation is on the values and benefits of independent boarding school. So I've spent a lot of time doing studies on it, Cory. And the unfortunate thing is there's not a lot of research that has been done in boarding schools. And you and I know boarding schools, we know the strengths of it, but certainly a lot of people out there don't necessarily know about boarding schools or what they know is through having read books like Harry Potter or watching movie like School Ties and

It's what sells in Hollywood and it's not always pretty, but certainly today that's far from the truth of what the benefits and the strengths of boarding schools are. And I always like to start off on the personalized side of things. And first and foremost, there's no hiding in the back of the classroom at prep schools that these teachers, coaches, administrators, dorm parents, they know you and they'll know your child really well. And the relationships that you're formed are often lifetime relationships. And I think when you ask a lot of people that maybe that went to public school,

what the relationships they may have with say their English teacher or their science teacher. More often than not, they're going to say, I don't, it doesn't exist. And not to say they didn't have a good experience, their teacher wasn't a good teacher. That's not what I'm saying, but I think these relationships often become lifelong relationships. And that's not even speaking about the students that they meet and interact with from not only all over the US, but all over the world.

Cory Heitz (04:48)
Right. No, that's special. Definitely the cultural and you not, you know, the small classroom sizes, teachers living on campus, ⁓ all that. Now you specifically, ⁓ you've been working with hockey players for a long time, helping them get into prep schools. And you've also got a showcase called the pre-prep showcase. How'd you get into the hockey ⁓ game of helping families get into prep school?

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (05:06)
Yeah.

Yeah. Good question. Yeah. Well, thanks for mentioning that. So I own a company called the pre prep showcase, which this year is my 32nd year doing it. And it affords boys and girls, the opportunity to get exposure to independent schools throughout the United States and Canada. This past year, we had student athletes from 34 different states and provinces. So we definitely are getting kids from all over. And, uh, so I was coaching, um, my first job out of school. was working at Eagle Brooks school in Deerfield Mass. was the, excuse me, the head varsity hockey coach there.

And there's certainly, especially if making a junior boarding school, there's an opportunity where these student athletes are looking to move to the secondary school level and a chance to get exposure. So it always takes place on the first Thursday of August every year. And as I mentioned, students come from all over and the coaches behind the benches are all prep school coaches. And it's not only playing ice hockey games, but also seminars and speakers and a luncheon, a school fair. So there's a lot going on. And I would argue that what takes place off the ice is equally as important.

is the games and the practices that take place on the ice.

Cory Heitz (06:08)
Gotcha. And then like, there a percentage of like kids that go from that to actual prep schools or what's your statistics every year on something like this?

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (06:17)
Yeah, I I think there's a high, you number, but I don't necessarily track it in the sense that I don't post any of my website or I don't publicize what it is. But over the years is great. And what's for me, quite rewarding is hearing the stories, hearing the stories from the students themselves or the parents, and especially sometimes even years later when they come back. And now it's fun where we're seeing children that are participating who their parents played when they were younger. So that's pretty cool.

Cory Heitz (06:21)
Yeah.

you told me that. That's crazy. That is crazy.

⁓ If you could give one piece of advice to athletes that are actually considering prep school, what would that be?

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (06:51)
I would say first and foremost, make academics your number one priority. I think that's most important. So at the end of the day, when you think about, understand as a young adolescent, you may aspire to continue and play your sport at the collegiate level even professionally, and that's awesome. And I think you should continue. There's nothing wrong with that. And I do think if the time comes where maybe it's not going to work out, make sure you're the one making the decision, not someone who's speaking down at you or saying, oh, you you're not good enough. You're not talented enough, especially if you're really highly driven and motivated to keep on working.

Try to reach your goals, but at end of the day, make sure you're not doing it at the expense of sacrificing your academics. Because even if you make it to that level and you're quite successful, you still got to have some smarts and some brains up there to know how to manage your life and your money.

Cory Heitz (07:32)
Right. Right. And then on the hockey side too, there are more hockey focused academies that don't focus as much on academics as prep schools. Am I right on that?

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (07:41)
Yeah, that's correct. So I would always say to parents, I think that there's a right fit for everyone. And what's the right fit for one boy or girl doesn't mean it's right for your son or daughter. It's a matter of finding what that right fit is. But certainly there are there definitely there's academies out there. There's independent day schools, there's boarding schools. And just here in North America, throughout us and Canada, there's so many unbelievable opportunities. And also within hockey, there is the world of junior hockey, and that's a whole nother world in itself. But there's a lot of great opportunities.

Cory Heitz (08:04)
Yeah, we'll do that.

We'll do the whole hockey, junior hockey and all that on some other podcasts. We focus on basketball here. It's confusing enough, let alone with the junior hockey stuff. But you mentioned your first job was at Eaglebrook and I know you were there for quite a few years. I had the chance to visit there last fall and I went through New England and it was my first foray into the junior boarding school world. But that's something a lot of families out there have no idea it even exists or what the benefits are. So can you give us like an overview of like

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (08:08)
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

It was.

Cory Heitz (08:32)
Who's junior boarding school for like, it for American kids? Is it for international kids? Is there a certain type that it makes sense for?

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (08:39)
Absolutely. So there's 11 junior boarding schools in the country. And these 11 junior boarding schools, 10 of them are in New England, one's in New York, and they're outstanding institutions. And what they do is they afford younger adolescents. And sometimes they have a day component that may start as early as pre-kindergarten or kindergarten. And often the boarding at some of the schools start somewhere between fourth, fifth, or sixth, depending on the school. And they go through ninth grade. And so then these students are really

continue to grow and develop as students, young adolescents, and they're getting involved in many different activities, and they're preparing for the next level, which is often going on to a secondary high school. And during that time, they're, they're really working on a lot of skills. And they come from all different backgrounds. Let's be honest, when you and I were in fourth grade, we didn't have the crystal ball what our future is, or, you we might have had gaps or areas we need to work on, and then ended up being our strengths by the time we applied to college universities. And so I think the junior boarding schools do a phenomenal job of preparing.

students for that next level. And I believe the secondary schools really recognize that. And so the secondary schools, whether it be their admissions office or even athletic coaches, they're actively seeking these students or recruiting them because they know that they've been away from home, that they've adjusted. And they know what those grades on the report card actually mean. And that's something that's often underestimated when the academic side is that, especially post COVID where they're statistically, there's definitely been great inflation in this country. We're seeing a lot of report cards that look really impressive.

Cory Heitz (10:03)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (10:04)
Say you get a B in algebra from one school to the next, that B is not the same, or even for one teacher to the next, it's not the same. So I think that the secondary schools understand and appreciate what those grades actually mean when they come from one of these 11 junior boarding schools.

Cory Heitz (10:18)
But you being at Eaglebrook so long, like what were those conversations? Like the fourth grade family, the parents of a fourth grader in California overseas that want to send their kid off to junior boarding school. Do the families know that they want to try to get them into a higher level secondary school? Like what's kind of the conversations you see? The kid is that the families want to jet set and they want to get rid of the kid. Like what are some of the scenarios on this?

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (10:26)
Yeah.

Yeah, it's a great question. So

in the case of EagleBrook EagleBrook's grades 6 through 9, so it's boarding and day, and the students come from not only all over the US, but all over the world. And so I would say as far as, know, the reference you made as far as parents want to get their kids away, that's far, definitely not the case, because under the perfect scenario, who would argue the best scenario would be for that, for any child, any age to be home, be in that environment. But unfortunately, that's not always the best environment. And that's not a knock on the parents. But it's just the reality is that at the home front is very difficult to offer.

Cory Heitz (10:54)
Okay.

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (11:08)
the unbelievable opportunities that these schools, whether it's a junior boarding school or secondary school can offer. And so for whether you're a domestic student here in the States or you're coming from abroad, these opportunities are unbelievable. And so I think for most of the parents, they want their child to continue to grow, develop, and then have opportunities. And especially if you are a fifth grader, say, and you do enter as a sixth grader, who knows what that is? Now, there's not to say that parents don't have aspirations or the childless have aspirations, but a lot's going to change as you know, they're in those middle school years. So

I don't think there's, mean, there are parents that might be just like in society, might be more high pressure than others. But I think for the most part, the parents just want what's best for their child. And they see that opportunity. It's like, wow. And they want, they want to give them that opportunity. So I was saying, so these schools just do a phenomenal job. And I just saw over the years, so many students are coming to Eaglebrook and the growth they had and the opportunities. It's just, amazing.

Cory Heitz (11:51)
Yeah, go ahead, sorry.

And stereotypically junior highs are rough time for a lot of kids throughout, you know, from the seventies, eighties, nineties to the current day. it better at a junior boarding school? Like do some of those challenges that normal junior high kids might face? Are those alleviated junior boarding school, or is it because everyone's so involved? Like you said earlier, some of that stuff maybe doesn't happen there.

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (12:05)
Absolutely, absolutely.

I think a couple of things. One is I think that the schools do a good job of creating structured environments, right? So think about teenage boys and girls. If you give them too much downtime, sometimes that can be a little scary. So you're keeping them busy, you're keeping them structured, you're challenging them. That's important. And also that, as I mentioned earlier, the faculty, the staff, the teachers, the coach, administrators, they know the students and the students know them. And so it's relationships. And I think the biggest thing I think for an adolescent boy is you're in a girl. I happen to say boy because Eaglebrooks are all boys.

Cory Heitz (12:32)
Mmm. Yeah.

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (12:52)
is that it's a really nurturing environment. So not only is it really structured, it's really nurturing. And these are men and women who really care about the development of the children.

Cory Heitz (13:02)
Okay, and you mentioned Eaglebrook goes to ninth grade. I'm assuming the ninth graders when they go off to secondary school, they reclass and do ninth grade year again, or do some go straight into 10th grade from ninth?

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (13:11)
Yeah, it's a question. So while there's always different scenarios for different people, but I think for the most part, if there is a reclassing going on, a lot of times the students may reclass when they enter the junior boarding school coming in. So while there are some students who may reclass going out to secondary school, more often than not, they reclass before they've arrived to the junior boarding school.

Cory Heitz (13:30)
Okay. And I go, I'm a ninth grader at Eaglebrook. Our secondary school is recruiting me. Is there like a secondary school ⁓ placement office at Eaglebrook that helps me like figure out which ones are good fits for me? Do families hire educational consultants like yourself? Like how does the placement of a junior boarding school work?

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (13:47)
It's

both. Yeah. So the junior boarding schools have directors of secondary school counseling who work with the students and the families to help guide them, advise them. And they would usually there's going to be a couple of people in the office men or women who are going to help and they're going to divide sort of the class up among each one of them. And then also working with the student or the parents. And there's certainly parents who will then also hire educational consultants like myself to work a little closer with their student, a little more attention.

Cory Heitz (13:51)
Okay.

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (14:13)
So I work, as you mentioned, about doing the pre-prep showcase, but as an educational consultant, I work with students from all different backgrounds, not just athletes, but students from not only domestically, but internationally, from all over, who are really looking for that guidance, whether they're looking to apply to a junior boarding school or a secondary school. And similarly, you'll have junior boarding school parents who would then continue that process. Like currently, right now, I'm working with junior boarding school students who are looking to make that jump to secondary schools.

Cory Heitz (14:38)
Interesting. And if I'm a family that knows nothing about the junior boarding school world, but I know I want to send my child there, hiring an educational consultant like yourself who knows the intricacies of all these 11 junior boarding schools, that's probably a good place for me to start then, right?

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (14:52)
Absolutely. I mean, I think you're not going to go wrong with any one of the 11 junior boarding schools because they're unbelievable, but certainly it's about finding that right fit. And sometimes that right fit does come down to that gut instinct feel that a child or a parent has. But where do you start? Because you're probably not going to go visit all 11 and go tour or interview at all 11.

Cory Heitz (15:08)
Yeah. So, ⁓ obviously what we do at Prep Athletics, we help basketball players from around the world, Jeff, find the right fitting prep schools. And you are our first educational consultant slash former admission director who's been on the podcast here. So walk me and our listeners through what educational consultants do for the prep school world and for your clients.

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (15:28)
Yeah, so it's a great question, Cory. So I think a couple of things. One is I think a really good educational consultant spends a lot of time to get to know the child. And that's through the lens of the parents or the guardians, through the lens of the child themselves, getting to know the child and spend time with them. And also through their past academic history, other report cards, transcripts, any testing they may have, whether it be standardized testing, psychological evaluations, et cetera. And really take all that information into a deep dive.

at that point to come up and formulate a list of, you these are some schools that I think may be a good fit for this child. And then sort of go back to the family, share that and answer a lot of questions that the family may have or the student may have about the school. And then it's an introductory phase. It's an opportunity for myself as an educational consultant to introduce the school to the student and the family and vice versa. And that also may include program heads.

In the case of like, you your situation, referencing basketball players, it might be really talented basketball player. And of course you want to have the head of the basketball program or the head coach involved in the process to know that, this person's looking at my school, not finding out later on, but rather they want to be involved, especially if it's someone that's going to be recruited for their athletic talents. And that could be not only in athletics, but also in the arts, other different program heads through different extracurricular opportunities at the school. And then throughout that process, ⁓ certainly one of the biggest goals is to get them on campus.

Right? Because it's not about who's got the pretty pictures on the website or who has great taglines. You got to go there and you got to go check out the schools. And schools want that. They want to see. And it's also a commitment on your part showing that you're really committed and you're invested, that you want to, you're really interested in their school. And so there's guidance that goes on as far as the interview process. Never, you know, I think about if you and I were to go interview some adults, that could be an intimidating experience. Never, never mind some young child is going for the first time or whether it be a junior or high school age kid who's being grilled by an adult with some questions and answer, you know, and having to answer them.

And then so with that, I think there's a lot of little tricks of the trade as far as communication and follow-up and such. Then there's an application process and that's essays and answering a of questions. It's actually putting kind of together your brag sheet or your resume. And then behind the scenes, there's a lot of advocacy. And through that, it's gonna be not only my knowledge of the schools, but also relationships I have. So relationships that I have with these admissions officers and these coaches or other people at the school.

And really going about, but also going about and putting my reputation in line where I really do believe that, know, Cory is a good fit for your school. This is why Cory would be a great fit. And I, why I think that you should accept Cory. ⁓ and I always tell parents, well, I don't make any promises or guarantees. My goal is that come decision day, want there to be options. Right? So if you apply to handful of schools, you don't want to only get accepted to one and have a bunch of rejections or wait lists, but rather have some choices. And some of you were applying to college university, we used to joke when younger, it's sort of the thicker thin, right? You got the envelope.

You wanted to get those thick envelopes, the big packages versus the one single envelope, piece of paper, a set of rejection letter. And that's the goal. And then during that process, a lot changes because these students continue to mature and grow and develop throughout the time where what they thought they may have wanted back in the fall might be different come decision time. usually, around, depending on the school, if it's on a traditional deadline system, March 10th, they find out and they have until April 10th and these schools will do second visits.

Cory Heitz (18:26)
Okay.

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (18:45)
And I've absolutely seen students who maybe in their own mind have ranked the schools of where they'd like to go in a school that may be further down the ranking and that they've been accepted to after a second visit. And they're looking at it from a different lens now, because no, you don't have the stress or anxiety. They're not nervous because they can now see themselves like, Hey, this is how I may or may not fit in. And these would be my people. Like this is what I'd be hanging out with or going to classes where they're playing this case basketball with.

And then they make these decisions. And I have seen students that would maybe choose what would be in their mind their third choice school, even though they all got into their top three. And that's the wonderful thing about these schools is that there's just so many amazing opportunities.

Cory Heitz (19:21)
I know sometimes my clients get, you know, that March 10th, uh, emails come and they have these three schools are going to get in and they're having a hard time choosing. I'd have a hard time choosing, right? Cause there are three great options. And I tell families, it's like you have an Audi, a Mercedes and a BMW. Like you cannot go wrong with any of these. It's just what, which one do you want to put your butt in for the ride of your professional career?

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (19:30)
Exactly.

Totally.

Well, that's the gut instinct, right? That's

the feel you have, or the gut instinct at that point. Maybe you can't describe it or put it in writing or put it on paper, but you're saying, know what, for some reason, I just think this is the one.

Cory Heitz (19:50)
Yeah. And that's what we work on with our clients. If they're torn between schools, I've got a couple of exercises that put them through to find out what the guts really saying. And ⁓ it's deep in there, but they know, they know.

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (19:57)
Yeah, that's awesome.

Totally. Yeah. It's just marriage dragging it out. And sometimes too,

not paying attention to the outside distractions.

Cory Heitz (20:06)
Exactly. Exactly. Now I'm going to have you brag a little bit here. There's a lot of environment or educational consultants out there in the world. ⁓ You've got a platform here. Why should someone hire Jeff Quebec to be their educational consultant?

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (20:19)
Yeah, well, thanks. So I think first and foremost, I've been working in independent school education since 1994. So whether it be as a teacher side, the coach, the door and parent, the administrator, and then moved into consultancy. have advanced degrees, including my doctorate degree. And as I mentioned, my dissertation is in the values and benefits of independent boarding school. And I've worked with students from all over the country, all over the world. Personally, I've traveled to 75 different countries. I got really good appreciation of students and families that are coming from all walks of life and all parts of the

globe. I think that's important and be quite candid. think my students do quite well. They have success and this is a business that's definitely word of mouth. It's a word of mouth industry where a student, a family has a good experience and they're telling someone else and that's what you want. So you work hard and you're being an advocate for the students. So the student success then becomes my success because then they're happy, they're proud and they're saying, wow, it's great work with Jeff and they're recommending someone you should check out, you know, contact Jeff Quebec I'll put you in touch. So

And actually my website, if you want to check it out is Quebec-consulting.com. ⁓

Cory Heitz (21:22)
Yeah, we'll have that in the show notes. Just look below. It will be there if you want to reach out to Jeff and get more information. Going back to what you said about you help with interviews. I've had a situation where a kid went into an interview. ⁓ he didn't have much money anyway, and he killed it in the interview to great. And he ended up getting a full ride out of it because the interviewer loved them so much, convinced the financial aid board to give him a full ride. got it. I've seen other times where the interview didn't go very good and or very well, and it hurt the kid.

You have been in those rooms doing interviews as a former admission director. Tell me how important the interview process is and are there any tips you can offer?

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (21:59)
Yeah. So I think it's huge. think it's an underestimated part of the process, especially more so maybe by the parents, because they may look at their child's accomplishments, whether in this case, you're talking about basketball, maybe on the court or in the classroom. And they're saying, my son's daughter is really talented and it's not going be a problem. They check all these boxes and they don't interview well. So it's just like in life, we all make first impressions when you meet someone, whether it be at the grocery store aisle or you name your place. And so I think it is really important, but on the flip side, I do think you can be sort of overprepared.

and almost like programmed, like robotic, where you're not yourself. So the advice I would give is first and foremost, well, I think there was some preparation and go into it. I think it to be yourself. You got to be genuine. And that's what the schools want. And so the best interviews, while they're going to ask you questions, the best interviews are the ones that become more like a conversation, not being drilled back and forth with questions. ⁓ So I think one of the things I would share with someone is an advice is that when admissions officers ask you a question, ideally, the answers aren't going to be one word answers. ⁓

Nope. Or just some simple answer, expand upon it. For example, if I were to ask you, Cory, what your favorite food is, you might say, you really love Italian food. But the best answer is you're going to then expand maybe what you like in Italian food or what type of dishes you like or why you like Italian food. Similar if you're talking about an academic subject in school, et cetera. So be able to expand upon your words. It shows a little more depth.

Cory Heitz (23:23)
Yeah, I love that. ⁓ yeah. Yes sir. No sir. Doesn't hurt either. Ask them questions. The interviewer questions. I think that's good too. ⁓ when kids take visits, go ahead. Yeah.

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (23:31)
Actually, I'm sorry. I

was just going to add in regards to the question is so at the end of the interview, most of the time the admissions officer is going to ask you, do you have any questions? Now in your mind, you might have had, say you had two or three really good questions that you were going to ask. And so then you're thinking, okay, well, during the interview, that person already answered those questions. Now I have none. So keep that in mind, because it's probably not a good look at the end. say, nope, I'm all set. Because while in your mind, they already answered your questions and you're right.

It may also be perceived as though, the students are not interested. They're just looking to get out of here. They're not interested in our school. So I would say in your mind, have a good quantity of questions that are banked. You don't have to ask them all, but definitely have some backups in case those ones that you were prepared to ask have already been answered. And also, sorry, it's also, I think it's okay to ask, a tour guide a question and maybe ask the admissions officer from the adult perspective the same exact question. That's okay.

Cory Heitz (24:14)
Yeah, love it. then when kids go ahead, sorry.

Yeah, good tips right there. What about on these visits? Is there do's and don'ts for what to wear?

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (24:32)
Yeah, so I guess for me, I don't think you can overdress to an extent. ⁓ But I do think you can underdress. And so what you'll see as you visit campuses, you'll absolutely see a big range as far as the dress codes at these campuses. And so you can always ask and reach out to the admissions office and ask them what is appropriate. But I think if you were just a nice decent pair of pants, ⁓ I wouldn't wear blue jeans, for example. ⁓ And then I think a pair of shoes and

wear a belt, like a collared shirt. If you wear a tie, that would be great too. And for a school that doesn't have a formal dress code, maybe you don't want to wear a jacket. But I certainly think that you don't want to be going there with your ⁓ sneakers and your running pants and hoodie, even though that may be acceptable at your current school.

Cory Heitz (25:17)
Yeah.

Yeah, first impressions. ⁓ How has the prep school world changed since COVID? Better or worse?

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (25:27)
Yeah,

yeah, it's great question. So I think a couple things happened. One is certainly probably similar to many of the college universities. I think some of the independent schools or all of them really suffered with the international market. And that was something that was out of anyone's control, especially with the closing of some of the visa offices in their home countries. And some schools maybe were better prepared than others. And what I mean by that is some of them maybe were more diverse as far as where their students were coming from and not being relied on certain markets. So I that made a big difference. I think we've turned the corner on that now.

And the conversations I've had with schools is that I have not heard from a single independent school that had any issues this summer in regards to students coming over internationally. So that was great. And so students were able to arrive, but they didn't know entering this summer what's going to happen. And so it seems like it's gone really well there. I think that's one of the changes. ⁓ I think when we look back on it, we're going to find areas are going to say that, believe it or not, as much as we all disliked COVID, what we had to go through, but there were some positive changes there.

So there were schools that definitely were forced to make some internal changes. In some cases, they stuck with them because like, you know what? This actually works. This is actually better. ⁓ So I think there were some areas there that, you know, those were depending from school to school, just individual areas. think that was good. ⁓ What else? I think that admissions offices specifically understood the importance more so of like, we really need to diversify where our kids are coming from and not maybe rely on the international market as much. You know, God forbid if something happens again, we have something similar to COVID. That's a real challenge.

Cory Heitz (26:46)
you

Yeah. And I think some of the things I saw, I think more schools now are doing rolling admissions to where if they see a student they like, if the money works, they'll take them sooner than March 10th. I think that's progressive thinking. ⁓ More schools are not requiring kids to play multiple sports, right? Some kids want to go to a school to play that specific sport. And I get the pros and cons of playing multiple sports, but also see my clients don't want to play soccer if they're leaving their mom and dad to go across the country to play the sport they love basketball. ⁓ What are your thoughts on that?

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (27:09)
Yeah.

Yeah, from an admission standpoint, do agree with you on that. You definitely some schools have gone to rolling. Others have gone to an early or sort of like an early decision, almost the model they have at college universities. And I know there are schools and discussions that are thinking about that behind the scenes and what that may or may not look like. In regards to playing the multiple sports, I think it you know, a couple of things. One is I think certainly there's some benefits of students not being one dimensional. I do understand that from a society standpoint, we're more into specialization.

Cory Heitz (27:32)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (27:51)
And there's a lot of pressure. So if you play at an elite level, say in a sport, there's pressure from that coach to really focus and concentrate on that one sport. ⁓ so I think there's pros and cons of that. I certainly, I do believe in the model and I think it's nice when kids can play other sports and get involved. And I think it's also really interesting when you see athletes might be really, really talented in one sport, like definitely accomplished, having an ability to go to the next level and they're humble enough and okay to play another sport, maybe at a really low level.

And I do think that their top sport, gained from that experience. Instead of being the starter, maybe they're more riding the pine a little more on the bench. And I think it changes them as an athlete for the better. So I've seen some really positive examples of that. Or maybe they're a little more of a cheerleader.

Cory Heitz (28:31)
Yeah.

Yeah, no, I've seen that in all, because there's a lot of our kids that have to play multiple sports and it's, it's humbling. You're right. You're right. ⁓ Help me with this. This is something I've never understood. It's the March 10th date, right? Where did that come from and why are schools still sticking to that versus each individual school doing what they want to do whenever they want to do it?

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (28:54)
Yeah, it's a great question. So I couldn't tell you another exact history of it. It was interesting. I was on a campus a couple weeks ago, and a sort of a long time director of missions brought that up. And he said the same thing. goes, you know, back in the day, it was sort of arbitrarily made and schools have just kind of stuck to it. And you know, being respectful about that. And but now, like, as I mentioned, there are some schools that are either doing a rolling admissions or starting to do an early decision. So I think you're going to start seeing some more changes to the landscape of that.

Cory Heitz (29:18)
Yeah. And Jeff, I'll have a client and I'll have two schools he's applied to and loves. One's getting given a decision in one week and one we got to wait six months till March 10th. And it's hard to wait till March 10th and not knowing what that answer is going to be when you can sign six months earlier and be locked up before your senior season. So, and the coaches are frustrated too, but since COVID so much has changed, with certain requirements, with certain practice dates and all this and that, I'm just curious, like when the old school prep schools that are more traditional.

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (29:29)
Yeah.

Yeah, very much so.

Cory Heitz (29:47)
if they're going to start changing or not.

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (29:50)
It'll be interesting because I think when you take one of those schools and maybe as we've around for a couple hundred years makes that change, it will almost open the floodgates, I think. You know, the other thing just to piggyback, I was thinking in regards to changes from COVID is that during times of COVID standardized testing wasn't really a thing. And the reason was the thing because you couldn't necessarily go take a standardized test. It wasn't really an option. So that changed the dynamics. And what has happened since then is I think there were definitely, I'd call it more highly competitive select schools

Cory Heitz (29:57)
Yeah.

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (30:18)
who maybe had some students that were accepted and enrolling in their school who maybe otherwise wouldn't have academically. And I think that became a little bit of challenge. And especially, think some of the veteran teachers saw that, seeing that maybe they weren't prepared in having some of the foundational areas and subjects. And so I think you've seen more and more schools go back now to requiring standardized testing. That's been a big change. Where, pre-COVID, we were in a time where schools were maybe shifting away from it little bit more. And now I think we're going in the opposite direction now.

Cory Heitz (30:40)
Yeah, because like you.

because what you mentioned earlier, an A in one school district is different from an A and maybe this private school in this other part of the country. So yeah, I agree on that. What's a misconception that you see over and over again that families have still about prep schools?

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (30:55)
Yeah, absolutely.

In what area? There's plenty of them.

Cory Heitz (31:04)
Just in gen- let's say, just in general, like I know one thing I've got to fight is prep schools for kids that have discipline problems.

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (31:07)
Sure. Yeah, sure.

Yeah, totally. I think you have, you know, there's many categories, you know, just when you mentioned, think, rich and affluent, famous, you know, like I mentioned, issues at home with on the family front, let's get this kid out of the house. And, and I'll be honest with you from the admissions standpoint, and not to say those things maybe didn't exist different in different generations. But today in the modern day for a child applying to different schools is if there's any sense that that student does not want to be there, you are not getting accepted. It's just too competitive.

Cory Heitz (31:23)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (31:39)
The applicant pool is so large. So they want students who first and foremost want to be there. Because if you're not going to be there, you're not going to obviously get involved in the community. You're not going to achieve any success. And it's going to be to the detriment of the other students there.

Cory Heitz (31:53)
Yeah. Yeah. Makes sense. Now here's the one I can't wait to talk to you about. It's the perception of academics at prep schools, right? So you've got the 10, right? Exeter, Hotchkiss, Loomis to name a few. They kind of go around the world together and they're known among, they call themselves like the top academic prep schools in the world. And you've got other schools on the East coast that are very good academics, but they're not in the 10.

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (31:57)
Alright.

Cory Heitz (32:19)
and then you got other schools that could be great fits for family, but they don't have the brand name that maybe another school has. So when you've got all these prep schools out there, Jeff, and they all claim they've got great academics. How, if I'm a family that doesn't know how this world works, am I going to get a different education if I'm not at a 10 school versus a 10 school within the 10 schools? Like how does a family know when they're looking at these swaths of schools, the academic differences between each.

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (32:44)
Yeah, it's a great question. Cause I've never heard of a prep school that's going to say we have bad academics, right? Or, know, so I think honestly, I think you get a good education in all these schools. there differences? Absolutely. With that said, uh, Cory, I think there is definitely a lot of hidden gems throughout United States and Canada. And there's some unbelievable schools out there. And so I think it's important to branch out and find what that right fit is. And as you mentioned about sort of that gut instinct, does, that's important. There's a to be said about that, but from an academic standpoint, you can also argue, say you're really, really talented academically.

Cory Heitz (32:48)
Exactly, exactly.

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (33:14)
You test really high percentile, you've got really strong grades and you've been high achieving throughout your entire academic career. And you're applied to and you're fortunate enough to be accepted in a role at one of the more highly competitive select schools, which is great and they're phenomenal schools. But now things have changed and you have to start eventually looking ahead towards the college university. So where are you now relative to your peers at that school? You got to keep that in mind. So.

I think a lot of times academic progress coincides with your confidence level. And so someone may say, I'm really, really good in math. And now all of sudden you go to a school where there's a lot of students that are really, really good in math from not only over the US, but all over the world. And you might be humbled pretty quick when you find students that maybe are at much higher advanced levels. And you find out maybe you're not as good as you thought you were. And now because you've lost some of that confidence, that can have an impact on your growth and development. say in this

in this case math, versus maybe a school where you continue to grow and progress and you gain that confidence. I there's more leadership opportunities. So everyone's different. It's about finding the right fit. But I certainly think that there's just, there are definitely a lot of hidden gems. And some of that does come down to dollars and cents because some schools have bigger budgets for marketing or they've been around longer. They've been around for hundreds of years. So I was speaking with a family today and we talked about a particular school that is not one that's as well known.

And I share with them, said, think it's one that might be a good fit for your child. And I explained the reason why. And we finished up the conversation. They want to check out this school because I think I was able to try to convince them, but it wasn't one that was coming up on this family's initial search they'd done on their own. The most important thing would be for that family and that child to go physically visit the campus. And it's not about, like I said, who's got the pretty pictures on the website or who's got these great taglines. Go check it out. See how you feel.

Cory Heitz (34:52)
Yeah.

But

yeah, I agree with you a hundred percent on all that. What do you say to families though, that ask you about, Hey, aren't the academics better at one of these schools that might have the bigger brand names versus one of these hidden gems? who determines, I know what you get about them. I know what you just said about the method. Who's, is there a neutral body that determines this school is higher ranked academically than this one? Do colleges think this is there, is there a survey out there that ranks these academically?

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (35:29)
Well,

yeah, first of all, I would be really careful of any survey. know, obviously we know what happens at the college level and to some extent is starting to happen now at these younger levels at the prep school level. But I'd be really cautious of that because we've all seen these surveys and we've looked at them and be like, oh, wow, like, you know, and some things are just out of control or there's things that are false. Maybe there's a single gender school and they have it labeled as coed or the enrollment they have labeled as 500 and truly 750.

And so I think sometimes, unlike maybe the US News and World Report that is very well known for college universities, ⁓ I've seen some of the data and it's just it's not accurate. So how are you evaluating the school in the survey if the information you have isn't accurate? Because the school didn't necessarily participate. They didn't necessarily contribute that information. So that's unfortunate. But I get it. Some, depending on your background, some people are really big into those rankings, so they can have an impact. And no doubt about it, schools that are maybe have a larger enrollment of students,

or possibly have a larger endowment. They may have some offerings that other schools can't have because they don't have the number of kids to support a certain class. That certainly can happen. That can be realistic. But I think at the end of the day, I don't think I've seen one of these schools where you're to walk away and say, you're going to get a terrible education there. I'm speaking specifically in the classroom. ⁓ But then certainly, as you know, with basketball, a lot is going to become on the extracurricular. So in a recent study, I saw the number one reason why a student or family chooses a school

is academics. And the number two reason is athletics. And then I believe, uh, visual performing arts, think we're either four five or further down. So when you combined those extra programs, whether it be say the arts and athletics, you combine the two, it's a number one reason why students looking at a school because it's not uncommon to the, you might have a student or family who says, we can get a great education here in our, at our local school, but what we can't get

In this case of, you know, speaking about, uh, prep athletics and your prep athletics podcast and basketball, the basketball is not where we need to, we wanted or want it to be. And that's one of reasons we're looking, there's nothing wrong with that. Similar to the story I shared with my brother, you know, moving on to Deerfield Academy, hockey was the driving force there. And that's okay.

Cory Heitz (37:35)
Right.

And Jeff, we need to let families know too, if you're at one of these top end schools, trying to get to a high academic school, the competition is going to be much more tight among your, you and your classmates trying to get those couple Ivy league spots at Harvard or Dartmouth. Cause these schools can only submit so many kids per class where if you go to a school that maybe ⁓ falls outside and we'll call it one of those hidden gems you just mentioned, you might have less people applying to those high academic colleges and you might stand a better chance getting in. that, is that the case?

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (38:05)
I mean, I guess it could be true, but on the flip side, you can argue for either one of those schools is that a lot's gonna be the reputation on the students have come before you. So whether it's a more selective school or a less selective school, if a college university has had great success in those students who've graduated from that school, they're more likely to want to accept more students. So I think that's really, I think that's the bigger part is the students have come before you, like, cause they know the school, like, wow, students from that school, like they're really well prepared. And I think that is on any end of the spectrum.

So think once again, it comes down to the right fit because there's highly selective schools that are phenomenal as is there's less selective schools that are phenomenal. Um, but I think, you know, often it's there sometimes they're less known and a lot of times it does come down to dollars and cents and the budget and the marketing and what they've done for exposure, or they haven't been around as long. They haven't had that opportunity.

Cory Heitz (38:51)
Yeah. You know, some families have come to me and say, Hey, we want to go Ivy league. These are the five prep schools that have sent the most kid to Ivy league. And I say, that's great. Once again, I go back to right fit, just like, you know, you're on the same page with, but there was a, um, a school in the Ivy league that took a kid from Putnam science. Now he qualified to get in that school, but Putnam science is not known as a high academic institution. In fact, they're probably on the other end, um, to where they help a lot of kids get NCAa eligible. And then a pop-up basketball academy in Arizona, sent a kid to Harvard.

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (38:59)
Yeah.

Sure.

Cory Heitz (39:21)
Right? So to me, what I tell families is if Harvard

or one is Ivy league or high academic schools, once you, and you qualify to get in, they don't care what school you come from. Yeah. They'd love to come. You to come from a school that they know you're getting trained on the court the right way and you're doing good in the classroom. But if you look at any Ivy league roster, you're to have international kids, prep school kids, public school kids, private school kids. If they want you, they don't really care what the Jersey is now relationships don't matter, but

Putnam science and that pop up in Arizona kind of proved my point that they'll take you from wherever if you can get it.

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (39:55)
The best thing is, Cory, is whether you attend a school in Arizona or in Connecticut, these schools, these independent boarding schools are going to do a great job of working with you to help you reach your highest level of potential, both in the classroom and in this case, on the court. At the end of the day, it's also going to what you make of it, right? You're being given this opportunity, so what do you make of that opportunity? On the flip side, when you mention Ivy League, let's be honest, everyone's not cut out to go to Ivy Leagues. You got to also be realistic with your goals. You might have someone who's a young eighth grader.

Cory Heitz (40:14)
Gotcha.

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (40:23)
And the child and the parents say, want to go, I really think it's great to have those goals and aspirations, but you're looking at their background, their experience, maybe they have some different learning challenges. And not to say can't overcome them, because of course you can, but you also have to be realistic. So I believe in reaching for goals, but you also have to be realistic with your goals too, or make sure you're not putting all your eggs in one basket. So if you had a student who came to you academically and said, well, I'm only going to apply to two ⁓ colleges. I'm going to apply only to Harvard, only MIT. That's probably not a smart decision.

And even if you are a valgatory of your class, you've got all these different accomplishments, because a lot of kids that fall in those categories who apply to those schools. And I think similarly to the prep schools, you got to be smart about that when you're exploring what schools you're going to apply to. And you can have reach schools. There's nothing wrong with that.

Cory Heitz (40:51)
Right.

Absolutely. All right, last thing, I'm going to beat this horse one more time. If you have two prep schools side by side, how is a family or a consultant going to know which one is better academically? Take out the fit, like just better academically. Is it how long a teacher has been on campus? Is it how many different colleges kids have matriculated to? What do you say to that?

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (41:07)
history.

Yeah. Well, I think there's a lot

of factors. if you're looking to go to the next level to prepare for the next level, I think to see where those students have gone afterward I think is important. And what I like to look at matriculation lists is I always find it funny when I see a school that might say, these were our students have been accepted in last 10 years. 10 years? Well, 10 years is pretty, that's a pretty good span, 10 years, right?

And just because they're accepted, or were they, you and some schools are breaking down. These are the ones that accepted these are ones that enrolled. But I see, I don't see no reason why a school shouldn't be saying these, this is where our class went last year, or the year before, like, break it down per year. But when you have a gapping of 10 years, especially we're dealing with COVID, like that's a pretty big span. So I think to me, that's a little bit of red flag there. I think there's other things I mean, I think certainly, I was having a conversation, someone about this today, I do believe that facilities make a difference.

Cory Heitz (42:05)
See you

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (42:15)
Uh, and also the facilities you have, but upkeep of facilities, what does it look like? Once again, just like that first impression you make when you meet, meet another person for the first time, what's your impression when you walk on campus? Does it look run down? Does it look like they're maintaining it? Right. You're going to, you're going to only be a student. You're going to live there. You live in the dorms. What are the dormitories like? You got to be happy. If you're not happy in the dorm, you're not going to achieve in the classroom. You're not going to achieve in the court. So I think being happy is really important. What's the turnover like? Is there a high level of turnover among faculty and staff? I think that's a big one.

Cory Heitz (42:45)
Is there way to find that out, Jeff?

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (42:45)
⁓

Well, I'll give you a perfect example. today I was on looking at a school and I was flipping through one of the coaches and I looked at like the last four years, they've had four different head coaches in four years. I think if you're a student athlete for that particular sport, you kind of wonder, well, what's going on there? And there could be legit reason, but I think it could be their own professional development movement on, but there's also a different level of consistency. I would also argue, specifically because you work with basketball players for any student athlete,

is keep in mind is that you may be feeling the love as we all like to feel when you're being recruited as a student athlete by a coach. And you're say you're looking to arrive as say a freshman or sophomore, that coach may not be there. That's the reality of it. And so you've got to make sure that you're happy there first and foremost as a person, as a student, and not make it all a hundred percent about the coach. Sure, the coach is important. It's a big part of the recruiting process, but it's got to be that you're really happy at the school. And they always talk about like the broken legs, you know, send it right. You break your leg.

Cory Heitz (43:25)
That's right.

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (43:43)
Are you going to be happy there still? Cause you can't play basketball. got a broken leg or you blow your knee or something in your rehab. So that's really important. And it can't be just because of coach so-and-so he really loved. And while that's understandably a big part of the process, so it should be, you just have to keep that in mind. Would it still be a school and in this case of basketball pro you'd be happy with if the coach moved on or something happened.

Cory Heitz (43:44)
Right.

You know, in the basketball side, I don't know how it is on a hockey, but a lot of these coaches never want to leave because prep school jobs are just, they're great. Right. A lot of them been to college level. see what the stress is. They love creating their own thing at the prep school world. But when a coach leaves, it's usually because the administration is not behind them. Right. And you've got some schools where the administration is behind the basketball team. It's thriving team does well. People know about it nationwide. Um, so that's one thing I tell clients to look at too, is how long has that coach been there? Jerry Quinn.

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (44:11)
Sure.

Or there's an opportunity,

right? There's an opportunity for development, right? An opportunity for them to maybe move to the collegiate ranks or something, or something they've always aspired to.

Cory Heitz (44:39)
That doesn't happen as often because the grind that the college rank is now, ⁓ with, with NIL, with the transfer portals. So yeah, these guys are getting smart. In fact, I've got a whole list of coaches that are like, let me know when a prep school spot opens up. We would love to have our name in that mix. ⁓ because these are such coveted spots, right? So you're right. When a coach leaves, does the administration support that? Why is that coach leaving? So that's where, you know, you and I provide values. usually know the answers to this stuff. but let me ask you.

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (44:44)
surf.

Or it could be financial.

could be from a budget standpoint where they're allocating their funds in different areas. And there could be some frustration because the school has made a decision that they feel it's more important to put funds towards another program or different area in the school.

Cory Heitz (45:19)
we've seen that too. Not to, no names mentioned, but yeah, we have seen that too. So, ⁓ what's a mistake families make, Jeff, when they're applying to prep schools?

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (45:29)
I think first and foremost, I think you want to make sure that whether you're working with a consultant or not working with a consultant that it comes across as student driven and not parent, coach, agent, advisor driven. I think that's really important. And while you're certainly getting advice from different people, I think it's important that the school sees that, okay, this is not the over the top parent in the stands who's going to let the school know how great the child is.

Cory Heitz (45:51)
Yeah.

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (45:55)
And I think that also can come across loud and clear sometimes during the interview process where you don't necessarily know who you're interviewing with. And while that person may be a really important part of the admissions team and part of the admissions committee, in this case, about basketball, they may not care less about basketball. Like that's not their jam. And all of a sudden they're sitting there and while the basketball coach is going to love maybe to hear the brag sheet and all the stuff about basketball, this man or woman may be like, my God, this parent is over the top. know, well, I love the student. Do we really want to have this parent involved?

So that can be a red flag.

Cory Heitz (46:25)
Interesting.

Interesting. Okay. We talk about that in the basketball side too. Those dads, right? Those unrealistic dads. It does. It does. Parents. I should say parents, right? ⁓ If a family is torn between two great options and they're one of your clients, how do you advise the player, the athlete, the student to choose between these two? Like, what are your suggestions when dealing with it?

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (46:31)
Well, mothers too, it goes both ways, right? Yeah.

I think the second visit is absolutely essential. I just think that you're naturally going be more relaxed. You're more relaxed and you're going through that process. And now you're visualizing yourself, can I see myself here? Versus when you first maybe you're on campus, there's a little more level of anxiety. Maybe you came back to watch a basketball game, but you still haven't heard the decision. So you're nervous. Understandably, you're putting your best foot forward and trying to impress, but you're approaching a different level when you have that acceptance letter. So the second visit is just critical.

And also I think it's important. always tell students and parents ask what I refer to as the tough questions. And in the course of athletics, that may be playing time. Now, I don't think that should be your first question. The first question should be, you know, where do I fit in? What's my playing time? But I do think that it's important because obviously it's something that you're passionate about. So do you want to go to a school or maybe there's not an opportunity? ⁓ You play a position where the coach says, I've got a tremendous amount of depth. There's an opportunity for you here, but you're not going to play that position. If that person's so adamant, they're not willing to be flexible. That's a problem.

You're probably not going to be a good fit there. So that's me, what I call one of those tougher questions. But don't be afraid to ask those questions because then at the end day, can know that internally, no matter what happens, that you you asked that and you found out the answer. Cause you certainly shouldn't arrive to a campus and have those things in your back of mind. I wonder, I'm not sure. And maybe the coaches isn't going to share with you or not be as upfront. That's fair, but at least you've asked the question. So then you can make that evaluation as you're maybe comparing these two stores schools, like you mentioned.

Cory Heitz (47:58)
yeah.

Mm-hmm.

I love it. love it. Now here's one I get. Hey, I want to go to get a scholarship at a prep school to play basketball. And then I have to break down about, you know, need based aid, merit based aid. What do you tell families that when they start asking you how much does prep school cost, give me your spiel ⁓ on how you explain that to them with aid versus need, et cetera.

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (48:41)
Yeah, great. Well, let's be honest from a needs standpoint, we all would, we all would love to have more money and it's great. You know, who wouldn't want to go to any one of these schools and pay little to next to nothing or pay nothing. ⁓ but you mentioned earlier, but you will play in the two sports and that's where sometimes that comes into play. So how many boxes do you check? Right. Because if a school has a allocation of funds for financial aid, they've got students from all over the U S all over the globe, wherever all walks of life, and they're trying to put together.

really special classes for their school. And it's not just in this case, just basketball. They're getting it from all different areas. May they have a really accomplished band. And the band director who's been there 25 years says, we're graduating four of our trumpet players and we really have to have a trumpet player or two. That's important. The school values, the teachers been there for 25 years, the band's really successful. So the point is that they're trying to take those funds and

maybe I don't know spread them as thin as possible, but basically really be smart in allocation where that money goes and not just necessarily one program. And that does vary from school to school, where maybe an emphasis would be of how they're trying to allocate that. So from the parental standpoint, I think a couple of things. One is, if you're a family who legitimately does qualify for financial aid, there is absolutely a sacrifice that you're going to need to make.

So you do the paperwork, you go through and it comes back and it says that as a family, can afford X amount of dollars. And so you may not get X. You may get 80 % of that, maybe 70 % of that. And that's the reality of it. But in the flip side, I know there's also expenses that go into feeding your child back home of your different tournament entry fees and hotels or gas or travel or meals on the road at a restaurant and such. So there's expenses that go along with that.

So you've got to really take that, you know, be honest with yourself in that. And also they're looking for that sacrifice and that commitment that you're really interested. So, ⁓ I think often you hear stories that people, maybe I'll call it, going back to the parents might be sort of some bragging that goes on to the stands of what a family is or isn't paying. And it may or may not be true. And even if it is true, the reality is you probably truly don't know their financial or their personal situation because everyone is different. ⁓ so be careful that.

it doesn't come down to what someone's sharing with you, sort of the free basketball advice when it comes to financial aid.

Cory Heitz (51:05)
Now you were head of admission or you in the admission department at Cushing, Mcduffie, Katz Academy. And to me, one of the most difficult jobs in the educational world is being in the admission department because you know how many beds need to be filled in every class. You know what your financial aid pot is each year. and you've got to divvy that up. So take me behind the scenes and what those conversations are like. So you've got your pool, you've got your applicants, you've got coaches has have their rankings. ⁓

Where do you guys begin? And I know that's how, that's a whole books have been written on this stuff.

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (51:39)
That's

a great question. So I would say a couple things. One is I think you look at the different, you know, certainly for the students when it comes to financial aid at that point, generally speaking, was thinking on generalizations here, the school has already made the decision that they want the child, right? This is a boy or girl, we'd wanted our school. So in the perfect scenario, they'd to have all of them. But unfortunately, there also is operating costs, there's bills to be paid, and just it's not realistic, or else everyone to come to these schools for free. So then with that,

You've got funds. So traditionally for a lot of schools over the years, was this idea that you would have, not an idea, there was a sort of a pool of money you would have. You have the X amount of dollars to spend for financial aid. And so what's happening now in a lot of schools is they work off what's called the net tuition revenue. So it's a little different model. And so with the net tuition revenue, it sort of works the opposite direction. What I mean by that, instead of having a pool of X amount of dollars and you're deducting every time someone's allocated financial aid, you're sort of working from the ground up.

Cory Heitz (52:21)
Yeah.

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (52:33)
And so you have a budget. You have a budget of what you need to basically acquire in order to be successful, to have the school operate with the programs and pay the salaries and pay the bills, et cetera. And you're working in the opposite direction. So it's the idea that you're starting at ground zero and you're building a class. You're building up to be able to meet that number. And then with that, you're going to have, from an admissions standpoint, you're going to have different program heads. And that could be anything from the

the dance teacher to the baseball coach to the head of the robotics program who's gonna come forward and is gonna say in this case, maybe I have this boy or this girl who's really good I think they'll add to our school and they're gonna essentially go to bat for why they think there there'd be a great addition and I'm speaking specifically on the ones these students have already the missions are decide they want the child, but it's from a financial aid standpoint and From an admissions to financial aid committee. It's more attractive when the

Cory Heitz (53:20)
Yeah.

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (53:30)
Let's say in this case, the young man that the basketball coach really, really wants, the robotics head is saying that this boy has experience in robotics and is really interested in continuing. I want him to, or maybe the ceramics teacher, all different categories, or the baseball coach is saying that this is also a, know, a South poppy, he had a lefty pitcher here and he also plays first base. And he's good. I've seen his film, I've watched him play. And so now from the missions and financial aid standpoint, we're saying, well, we know we already want him. He's already acceptable, but

Now we really feel, okay, that this student is gonna contribute in many facets of life, not just on the baseball diamond or the basketball court, whatever it may be. And so you're more likely than to be in a position to maybe meet their needs or award them financial aid. So there are situations, unfortunately, and this is a dilemma that a lot of schools deal with, is that you can have a situation where admissions is saying he or she is fully acceptable, no problem, but we can't make ends meet financially.

So do we low ball them? Do we give them zero financially? Do we wait list them? And that's a tricky one because let's be honest, what your family may or may not need financially really is out of your control as a young adolescent boy or girl. And if you've done everything possible, as far as academically, athletically, extracurricular, some schools have the philosophy that they'll say, congratulations, you've been accepted. And maybe unfortunately, you're put on a financial wait list.

Or unfortunately, we can't give you any financial aid. Other schools had the philosophy that that's bad, especially if there's no chance of ever getting any funds. And then maybe just will wait list you or reject you. And that becomes an individual school philosophy. And that gets tricky. And there's usually some debate behind that because that's hard. And you're tugging with emotions, the emotion of the child, the emotion of the parents. That's not always easy. So it's, it's not, it's, it's a little bit of a game, but it's not easy and it's hard. And then with that, you mentioned that you have students understandably.

we're getting accepted to multiple schools. And so your school may not be that child's first choice. So I have seen some pressure that maybe has become a little more common where schools are trying to find out where are we in the pecking order? Are we your first choice, second choice? Like, where do we fit? while it's a challenge, but I do understand, schools that maybe don't have as large a financial aid budget, if you're the child's fifth choice,

Cory Heitz (55:34)
Right.

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (55:55)
They can't risk allocating funds to you because you're going to lose on someone else who possibly your school is their first choice. So I think for some of the smaller schools, it becomes a little more of a challenge.

Cory Heitz (55:58)
you

Yeah. And some of the other schools, they want to find out where you're on the pecking order so they can have their acceptance rate percentage be higher. Right. And that's tricky too.

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (56:12)
Yeah, you're

absolutely right. Especially the more competitive schools who are doing that. You're absolutely right. I had a gentleman who's a veteran admissions officer last year and he reached out to one of my students and I always coach the parents and the families and I'm going to say whatever you asked me to say in regards to that topic. And I sort of go over the pros and cons of when you may want to have a first or second choice, when you may not want to have one, et cetera. And this family, this boy truly did not have a first choice, but this particular school arguably was in the top three. ⁓

started to share that with this veteran admissions officer. And I said, I'll be honest with you, think, you you're in his top three and I think he's got some good choices, but he, he's going to do revisits. He's not really sure assuming he can get accepted. he sort of interrupted me said, that's it. That's all I need to hear. And he says, Jeff, is now our job to yield him. And for me, that was so refreshing to hear that. yes, he wanted to know, but I wasn't getting the full court press. And to me, that was awesome. So he did his due diligence. He reached out to me and asked, and I was very honest with him.

But I just like that approach and every school understood they can't always do that, but it was just, it was nice to hear that.

Cory Heitz (57:16)
Yeah, that was a mature way of handling it. So I liked that. Tell me this, when a kid gets waitlisted, uh, what do you tell families in that situation?

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (57:17)
It was awesome. Yeah, it was really good.

Yeah, waitlists are tough. so I think one of the things is I always, when I work with, if I have a student gets waitlisted, certainly it's a little bit different because I can have conversations behind the scene, but the advice that I would give a student or family is to realize that when you receive that waitlist, you may not be happy. Nothing is going to change in those first couple of days, even first couple of weeks. It's just the reality that it's happening. It's just not going to happen. And so the anxious student or parent who immediately reaches out an email or phone call and they want to call back, you know, and

The question is often going to be A, where on the waitlist am I? Right? As far as it ranking. And the real truth of the matter is these schools do not put together behind the scenes a list. They don't have your number one, the waitlist, your number two, number three, just don't do that. There's a pool. Now, certainly they have ones they'd like more than others, but they're not putting a number associated with it. Or am I going to get off the waitlist? It's just too early because at that point, and you've received that letter on March 10th, they need to find out what their yield is.

meaning that among the students they've accepted, who's going to accept them? Like we said earlier with the financial aid is they're going to lose some students because they chose other schools. And schools realize that hence why if they had to fill 10 beds, they're not only accepting 10 students, they know their numbers, they know their trends. So maybe they're accepting 15, whatever the number may be. So as the process goes on, and sometimes that's going to take a month because while someone may get accepted on March 10th and immediately say, yeah, I'm in, I'm going there.

Others are going to wait. They're going to do a second visit. They're going to get a little closer to that April 10th deadline. I'm sorry, April 10th deadline. And then the school may not know their status of their wait list until post April 10th. And that's tough for students and families because they, know, waiting a month is long, especially when you got, you didn't get the news you wanted to receive.

Cory Heitz (59:11)
I know. And then will schools tell a kid if they're number one on the wait list, will they kind of share them like, Hey, you're right there. We just didn't have numbers for you. Well, they share that with a student if they're number one, like right there, or do they keep that pretty quiet?

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (59:22)
Yeah, I I think,

yeah, I do think if they felt that you were really high in the wait list and were really high odds, but I just think that's pretty rare or else they would just would accepted you to be honest with you.

Cory Heitz (59:32)
Yeah, okay. You've got a podcast. Tell us about it.

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (59:36)
I do. Yeah, thanks. Thanks for asking. So my podcast is a wide boarding school. And it's right now an audience is in 60 day of audience in 62 different countries. And so I've got close to a hundred episodes and you can find it at my website, whyboardingschool.com. So my other website, as I mentioned is a Quebec dash or hyphen consulting.com. So if you go to the wideboardingschool.com pot website, or you go to wherever you listen or watch your podcasts.

whether it be Apple or Spotify or through YouTube and check out why boarding school podcasts. And what it is, it is interviews with heads of admissions or heads of school or ⁓ people basically on high leadership positions of the school who really talk about the school. And so it's not about me, it's not about them personally, but it's about the school. And we do a deep dive asking questions and learning more about the school from not only academics, but athletics, et cetera. And so.

I think for those who might be interested in looking or exploring independent schools, it's certainly informative as you can learn more about the school through the Wide Boarding School podcast. Who's your friend there? Who do got there?

Cory Heitz (1:00:34)
Okay. Yeah,

our puppy, bananas. She's been with us three weeks now and she, ⁓ just my wife just finished her job and now she's up here. So, I mean, it's about time for us to wrap up, but, is there, we talked about a lot today, Jeff, and I know, you know, this world inside now, is there any topic or anything we didn't touch on you think our audience should know or be aware of?

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (1:00:41)
That's awesome.

Nice, very nice.

Now, I think this is great, Cory. Certainly I've enjoyed the conversation. And I think the work that you do to help student athletes, specifically basketball players, explore the options of different independent schools is awesome. And I think it's a service that is, you we just need more good people. And I think one of the things I know you do and I do is to go out and visit the campuses and visit the schools. That's as most important as to physically get on there and check it out. And that's where you learn that, get that gut instinct. And if there is anyone who's interested in learning more about my consultant services, certainly feel free to reach out. I appreciate it.

Cory Heitz (1:01:17)
Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. We will definitely let people know that want to go that angle about you, Jeff. And Hey, you're doing a great job out there. You've been doing this with hockey families for over 30 years. Now you've been behind the scenes in the admission department, both the junior prep schools, regular boarding schools, and now helping families. So you're just a great resource. And I suggest folks that are out there that want to learn more about the intricacies of this beyond just sports, you know, check out what Jeff has to say. And it's really informational. So thank you so much for coming on the podcast today, Jeff. I really appreciate it.

Dr. Jeffrey Quebec (1:01:58)
I appreciate it, my pleasure Cory, thank you very much.

Cory Heitz (1:02:00)
Thank you all for joining today. If you'd like this, be sure to subscribe on all the major podcasting platforms and go to YouTube, to our channel there to subscribe to get bonus content. And if any questions come up about the prep school world, feel free to email us at quarry at prepathletics.com. All that's at prepathletics.com, including free assessments where we can find out if you're a good candidate for this world. Thanks so much for tuning in. We'll see you next time. Take care.