PREP Athletics Basketball Podcast

Remembering Coach Whit Lesure of Bridgton Academy

• Cory Heitz • Season 1 • Episode 133

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Coach Whit Lesure was the very first guest Cory ever welcomed to the PREP Athletics Podcast — and long before that, he was one of the most influential voices in the prep school basketball world. This re-release is not about trends or tactics. It’s about remembering the coach, mentor, and standard-setter that Whit was.

Whit spent decades shaping young men at places like Bridgton Academy and New Hampton, not by selling dreams, but by demanding accountability, toughness, and honesty. He believed the post-graduate year was not a shortcut, but a proving ground — a place where maturity, discipline, and love for the game mattered more than hype or rankings. In this conversation, Whit speaks openly about recruiting families, recognizing red flags, teaching resilience, and why “fit” always beats flash.

For parents, players, and coaches navigating the prep-to-college pathway, this episode captures the values that still matter — even as the game changes. Whit Lesure’s impact lives on in the players he shaped, the coaches he influenced, and the standard he set for what prep school basketball should be.

💡 Key Topics

📌 Post-graduate year philosophy and long-term development
 📌 Recruiting the family, not just the player
 📌 Toughness, accountability, and love for the game
 📌 Prep school basketball before rankings and hype
 📌 College placement reality across all levels
 📌 Coaching standards that transcend eras

🏀 About Whit Lesure

Whit Lesure was a respected prep school basketball coach whose influence extended far beyond wins and losses. Known for his honesty, discipline, and commitment to player development, Whit helped generations of young men grow through the post-graduate year and into college basketball and life beyond the game.

 🔗 Connect with Bridgton Academy: 

Instagram | www.instagram.com/bridgtonacademybasketball/

🔗 Connect with Cory:

Website | https://www.prepathletics.com
Twitter | https://twitter.com/PREP_Athletics
Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/prep.athletics/
Facebook | https://www.facebook.com/PrepAthletics
Email | coryheitz@gmail.com
Phone | 859-317-1166

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Cory Heitz (00:00)
Welcome to this week's episode of the Prep Athletics podcast and what we have going on this week is a special re-release. So our good friend, Coach Whit Lesure of Bridgton Academy passed away earlier in January and he was the first coach we had on as a guest on our podcast ⁓ back in think 2021. He's a good friend and I wanted to have him on first and hear his thoughts and we discussed getting him on in a few months from now just to do a catch up and an update on

how prep school has changed since then, but unfortunately passed away suddenly at the age of 66. So since then, been a few weeks. ⁓ Bridgton's been winning some games. We've got a new coach in there. For the time being, their players are going to get placed in college. So they're doing well there, but now that we've had time to kind of think about what it meant to us and thinking about him and all his great sayings, I wanted to re-release this for folks that haven't seen it before.

and share this podcast. I just know this is my fifth podcast ever. It's a little raw compared to what ⁓ it is nowadays, but the message is still clear. ⁓ yeah, so Whit, we love you. Rest in peace, brother. And here is the first podcast of Whit the Coach on the Prep Athletics podcast. Hope you enjoy.

Cory Heitz (01:42)
Welcome to the prep athletics podcast with Cory Heitz on today's edition. We're going to be hosting an interview with coach Whit Lesure from Bridgton Academy and coach Lesure has a long history in the basketball world. He's been at Bridgton for some time and before that Newhampton and he was also a D one coach. So Whit, thanks for joining us this morning. How's it going?

Whit Lesure (02:04)
Appreciate it, Cory, very good.

Cory Heitz (02:07)
I want to start out. I just gave a brief overview of your background there. Once you tell us a little bit about where you grew up, why you picked basketball and your little bit about your coaching history.

Whit Lesure (02:16)
Yeah, so I grew up in a small town, big basketball town outside of Massachusetts, perennial state champs, you know, go to the old Boston garden for tech tournament and, you know, get to the games as a kid, you know, at halftime in the JV game just to get a seat and all that sort of stuff. And to some degree, I think kind of basketball chose me as much as I might've chose it. My mom says that from a young age, that's not what I wanted to do watching, you know, Al McGuire.

You know, we used to Channel 27 out of Worcester, great Division II basketball and all that sort of stuff. And then, you know, just was fortunate enough to run into some great people at a young age that got me further hooked.

Cory Heitz (03:00)
Did you play in college?

Whit Lesure (03:01)
I did, I played at Hobart College, shout out to the statesman. ⁓ Wasn't much of a player there or anything else, but ⁓ you know, sometimes out of the ashes come other things. my son is actually up there now and their team has been terrific and it's been just a blast to see him and the team have so much success.

Cory Heitz (03:21)
God. See, I never knew you went to Hobart. Now I see the connection with you and your son with that. That's pretty cool, huh? Very cool. Gotcha. Now after Hobart, when did coaching start for you? Or did it start right away? Did you take a break to do other things?

Whit Lesure (03:33)
Well, you know what, I was lucky. My high school coach as a senior ⁓ was tremendous, of Rich McLeod. And I coached the high school team in the summer league for years while I was in college. So I was actually getting experience there. And it was a Framingham summer league and ⁓ Smokey Morisi, Hall of Fame Massachusetts coach, who was the coach of David Blatt for any of you international or, you know, David, right? So. ⁓

You know, I kind of got to start there and then, out of Hobart, almost on a whim, ⁓ you know, got involved in the prep scene and landed the head coaching job at New Hampton ⁓ right out of college first year. So that's a story in itself, but needless to say, ⁓ pretty fortunate development at a young age for me.

Cory Heitz (04:23)
How many years were you there? What years were those?

Whit Lesure (04:25)
Nine years.

82 to 91.

Cory Heitz (04:30)
Okay, does that when Pat Knight went there?

Whit Lesure (04:33)
Pat Knight went there. Coach Pat Knight, ⁓ his dad was tremendous. ⁓ I've always said that I think that when Bob Knight sent his son to prep school, now again, there've been plenty of other folks doing it, but ⁓ I would say that that gained kind of the public knowledge of what that year could be all about. And next thing you know, everyone was sending their son to prep school. So that was a piece of how the thing took off, I think.

Cory Heitz (05:00)
Walk me through that. Did you, did he recruit some of your players knew about you in Newhampton or, and he must've talked to other schools as well. Give me more background on that if you don't mind.

Whit Lesure (05:09)
Okay, yeah, I mean, definitely talked to a few other schools. So ⁓ had not recruited them. True story, God strike me dead. They called up, I happened to be in the admissions office and I think her name was Mary, but secretary for coach Knight said, hey, we've got coach Knight on the other line. know, honest to God, I know you, I've heard this myself. I said, yeah, yeah, yeah, boom, hung up the phone and called back. Hey, it's coach Knight. And so, my goodness, God, I don't think I slept for.

48 hours, but ⁓ they took a trip out to New England and visited Worcester Academy and ourselves and a couple other places and you know, ended up obviously coming with us and ⁓ that was, you know, again, that was a good year. Pat was a terrific guy and a fun guy and all of that.

Cory Heitz (06:01)
So you really think in your opinion that helped put the New England prep school world a little bit more on the map to people in the rest of the country.

Whit Lesure (06:08)
Yeah, I I think that it played a role. I'm not trying to make more of it because Worcester and D-Roe and Tom Blackburn had done their thing. Fletcher Aret down at Fork Union had all sorts of things to get into. I think that ⁓ that did put a national ⁓ spotlight, if you will, on it. ⁓ And so all of sudden Prep School was

not just for the kid who needed it or, you know, some other such reason, you know, because I think Knight explained to some people like, why wouldn't you do it? Your kid gets a year older than gets to college. Now you get this. mean, there's no real downside to it. and, know, we had a George raveling son, right? George, former coach and Nike guy and all that. mean, I think he enrolled at our school about two weeks after coach nice decision. So, I mean,

I think it did have some impact on the credibility of what it was all about.

Cory Heitz (07:10)
Was it a foregone conclusion Pat was gonna go play for his dad?

Whit Lesure (07:14)
That was not a foregone conclusion. No, that was not. I think finding the right fit was a big part of that. I remember telling Pat, you know, because at one point, you know, should he, shouldn't he, this and that. I said, said, listen, the only thing I'm going to tell you is when I look at our locker room, you know, if, if, if Indiana and Bob Knight offered 12 guys the opportunity to go to Indiana, I don't see too many guys in there turning it down.

And so that, you know, if you fast forward to graduation or senior night at Indiana, which I just saw on TV or clips of it or something when, you know, coach Knight spoke so glowingly of Patrick. mean, that was an incredible, you know, cause it doesn't always go like that. happy for them that it did.

Cory Heitz (07:58)
All right. After New Hampton, where'd you go?

Whit Lesure (08:03)
University of New Hampshire, Jim Boylan, who I, you know, was the former guard for the Marquette and McGuire and all that, offered me like a restricted earnings at that time, which they really barely had. It was very restricted. And, you know, we had a sabbatical program at New Hampton where you could do something. And I knew I wanted to, you know, I mean, obviously I loved New Hampton, it was great to me, but, you know, I was a man to man.

the defensive guy, motion guy. I said, I got to get college experience. I got to go see what the best of the best are doing with this stuff. ⁓ you know, went with Jimmy and he was really good to me. ⁓ UNH was great. Jay Wright was in the league at the time starting out at Hofstra. Mike Bray, right? ⁓ You know, the, you know, you know the deal. The video work, the level of, you know, it's a whole different.

thing at the college level. So that was a great experience for me.

Cory Heitz (09:01)
What's the one main thing you've learned that you took away from that year?

Whit Lesure (09:06)
⁓ I mean, I think the all encompassing aspect of the job, the attention to detail, certainly the video work, you know, I would say those are the things, but I think the common denominator and all of it is connecting to the players. I mean, honestly. And, and so that played a role in me getting back to Bridgton because we had about five or six prep kids on that team. My, my first year.

You know, one kid, a couple of kids, St. Thomas Moore, Northfield Mount Herman, Fork Union, MCI, New Hampton. I mean, all the, we had a bunch of prep guys and they're upperclassmen. And I'm sitting around and they're all talking about what, you know, their prep year. And I was like, holy smokes, you guys really valued that. Again, back to a little bit, what we were talking about earlier. This wasn't just something you did and you know, okay, great. And then moved on and forgot about this was life changing to some degree.

And when I saw the kind, those are all good guys, obviously, right? But when I saw the, you know, the meaning that they put into the year and the fact that years later they recounted it so fondly, you know, obviously it made me feel good about what we had done at New Hampton, but in coming to Bridgton and said, okay, I know what I'm doing matters or can matter. So that was very motivating.

Cory Heitz (10:26)
So you did Bridgton right after that sabbatical year at New Hampshire.

Whit Lesure (10:30)
I mean, sure. actually spent a year, ⁓ you know, I was on the staff. Ultimately they got fired at New Hampshire, which, you know, I had an old academic friend of mine said you haven't lived until you've been fired anyway. So I got a little taste of that after five years, but Scottsdale Community College, the artichokes, Ron Michael, NBA guy, Jimmy Boylan knew. So I was an extremely ⁓ volunteer guy kind of hanger on her. I was used in some of the golf tournaments.

That was about my role, hey, Witt, go play with a couple of alums. But it was a lot of fun for one year in the league out there, in the junior college league in Arizona. So from there to Bridgton.

Cory Heitz (11:11)
So you've been at every level pretty much prep school, high school, Juco D1. So you've got ⁓ great perspective on just the basketball landscape world. And I guess the one thing you're missing is the NBA, but you have no desire to do that. I'm guessing, right?

Whit Lesure (11:25)
I don't know, never say never. got, I'm, you know, I know I'm on the back nine myself. So I understand where I'm at in my career, but you know, there's a few things I could do. never, never, you know, who knows.

Cory Heitz (11:37)
So help me on this. You've been in the prep school world since the early eighties. What's the biggest change between the players and the parents and the style from when you started to where we're at in current day.

Whit Lesure (11:49)
So, I mean, I think the biggest change is the number of schools that are playing competitive basketball. That's the biggest change that schools of every ilk, know, in New England and beyond are putting out a prep school, boarding school, basketball team that's pretty darn, pretty competitive, you know? And so say some of those teams back in the day that were very good prep school teams.

you know, today would be extraordinary, you know, would be extremely average. to me and, right. I, and I'm at Bridgton in New Hampton. So I, you know, I I'm not throwing stones at anyone, but I would say some of the folks, you know, putting out great basketball teams are people back in the day that would kind of poo poo sports, you know, that would say, Oh, you're too athletic. You know, the old, you know, you're, you're a jock school or you're this or that. Right.

You know, I think the same thing at Mears, what's happened in the college level. There are colleges today at every level, you know, with strong athletic programs that probably, you know, at the same time period, weren't putting out too much of a team, but youth sports and the way we value sports in this country, I mean, that shift is reflected everywhere in my opinion. So, but if you said, hey, what's the biggest change? It's, know, how many people are putting out good teams. And then, you know, I mean, think there's other changes that go along with that too.

Cory Heitz (13:14)
parents what's the difference between the 80s to now they more involved

Whit Lesure (13:18)
more involved in general. And so then when they're less involved, usually that parent is self-aware enough to say, Whit, I'm not one of those parents. Because we've all been around it enough. And usually they may or they may not be. But most of the time, that's good. I heard this from a college coach, and it's helped me in the past several years when I heard, made a lot of sense to me about, hey, listen, you're not just recruiting a player, you're recruiting a family.

You know, you're recruiting the parents too. So again, it's not an exact science. I'm not going to pretend to be, you know, Joe recruiter guy. But there's a lot of truth in that, in that statement.

Cory Heitz (13:59)
As a parent that's been from your initial conversation, someone that could be an issue, has that caused you to not move forward with the kid because you didn't want to deal with the family?

Whit Lesure (14:09)
yeah, I mean, I've, you know, I mean, I've, yeah, I mean, sometimes early, you know, you red flags, right. And coaches look for red flags. They're looking for red flags. I don't get every, you know, I mean, I don't get every family that I'd like to get here either that maybe they see something with me or the school that doesn't seem right or this and that, right. So it's always a feeling out process, particularly when prep school is so new to most people that are looking at it. So.

yeah, there are times when I shy away, you know, I, and, ⁓ the former coach at NYU, once heard him say, you know, if he ever heard, tell this to my players, but he said, look at, if I hear a coach, if I hear a young man, if I hear a kid, you know, ⁓ speak badly about his, any coach he's had, cause I don't recruit him. I've always wanted to ask Joe whether or not, you know, as he got older and you know, did

That would be pretty hard these days. You might not be recruiting a lot of guys, you know, but I think there's, I'm always, you know, my antenna goes up anytime someone starts talking too poorly about a coach. I ⁓ you know, I, know, pretty interesting.

Cory Heitz (15:21)
Well, the one thing I always say, and I think we might have discussed this, is people looking for a post-grad year or a prep school usually aren't satisfied.

Whit Lesure (15:27)
Right. Yeah. That's okay. Yeah. That's okay. It's just perspective, right? It's, it's, what you do with that. You know, you want more, the guys that come to Bridgeton want, they want more, they want something they don't have. And that, that's, that's good. I do too, you know, but now, you know, how do you go about that?

Cory Heitz (15:46)
Now we've been talking about your school, Bridgton, you've been there quite a while. Now, why don't you give ⁓ listeners that don't know much about your school a little overview because your school is a little bit different than your, you know, majority of the prep schools out there.

Whit Lesure (15:59)
Yeah, so I think the fundamental difference is that we are solely post-grad. mean, and that's not even that. I mean, we've had a couple of two-year kids over the years, but we're basically a post-graduate school. So one and done, right? Calipari's made what we've done ⁓ forever. He's kind of made it famous. But ⁓ I think the fact that we're post-graduate boys makes us different. ⁓ I think that means the focus is on that cohort.

Right? So those post-grads, the PG's are our business. They're not simply an add-on to a nine through 12 structure. ⁓ You know, they make up our school. They are the identity of our school every year. So the focus is, you know, they get the attention. It's them. ⁓ So I think those are the two things we like. I think it's a family oriented place. Sometimes you hear the word brotherhood is, you know, because of the guys and the closeness and all of that. But ⁓ I think that's what...

makes it part of what makes it special.

Cory Heitz (17:00)
But since you have a, since you're cleaning house every year, every year must have its own personality among the student body. Right.

Whit Lesure (17:06)
Yeah,

it really does. mean, and I know there was a particularly ⁓ rough year early on for me, ⁓ not for me personally, but in the school, was just, know, just the chemistry of the school wasn't right. And, you know, a few discipline problems, right, that all schools go through. And I remember going to the director of admission at that time and saying, man, I don't know, maybe this thing isn't tenable, like just asking 160 guys to

come to Maine and kind of be holed up in this sort of environment, right? Where there's not a lot to do and everything that you and I both know, ⁓ the isolation and the intensity of the experience. maybe this is a thing of the past. And then flip a switch in the next year, you've got zero issues, great thing, this and that. And I'll tell you what's interesting and I don't wanna jinx us either, but the last couple of years and several years,

by and large really good ones here. And like, go, wow, kids, you know, and you hear some people in education say this, but young men, this is a great year. You know, this is a really valuable year. So there was at one time I was saying, I don't know if this thing's, you know, either tenable or how, but I think it's in a way it's better than ever. And we have, again, knock on wood, less issues than ever. A lot of good guys and you know.

managing the situation. Maybe sometimes, maybe that's because, you know, they have cell phone, maybe they have access to the outside now that they didn't back in a day. And, you know, half our problems might've been because I had 20 guys in the dorm lined up for a payphone looking to talk to their girlfriend and, you know, willing to, you know, beat the snot out of each other for their five minutes to, you know, to call home. So, ⁓ you know, we don't have to worry about that anymore.

Cory Heitz (18:58)
Right. You know, fork union still didn't allow cell phones. So I've got a kid there now and that was, and I actually had my, my cousin's tour a couple of years ago and that to them was a deal killer. Like we can't do that. ⁓ We cannot fathom just having like a one hour night for our phone to be turned on actual landline phones. So it still does exist out there, but of course fork union is its own animal anyway.

Whit Lesure (19:22)
Yeah. And I have fond regard. mean, I do shout out again to Fletcher Arrett, legendary coach, Matt Donahue. I've gotten to know all the people down there, phenomenal job. I know, you know, they used to be up against it. I mean, they, they, they were it. mean, Fletcher Arrett was it. was, it was really Tommy Blackburn at Worcester and Fletcher Arrett at a whole nother level. When I told some colleagues, when I told a few friends of mine that I was going to play Fork Union,

He looked at me and said, are you out of your mind? Do you know what you're running into? But totally did it the right way. So Fletcher Aritz, a guy that was really good to me as a young coach when I was at New Hampton. used to say, in fact, I'll tell you what, we mentioned Pat Knight. I Fork Union had as much to do with building New Hampton and the New England Prep School brand. We're talking about the same time period basically, a little earlier.

They bring their team up and I mean, they would bring in coaches just galore to our gym. ⁓ That's a fact. I used to say that I forgot that, but Fork Union did as much for helping not only me personally, but they built the brand in New Hampton by their willingness to travel up. You know, and we'd go down there for the holiday tournament, but that's a fact. I kind of.

You know, I mean, to me, if you look at our schedule, we play a lot of people and we play a lot of people we don't need to play. And part of that is, you know what, there were some, there were a lot of folks that were good to me. And, you know, I'm not going to try to, I'm not saying I'm as good of a guy as Fletcher Arad or nothing else, but I'm saying that, you know, you got to pay it back too.

Cory Heitz (21:04)
Absolutely. You know, we talk about the benefit. When you talk to kids, when I talked to kids for the first time, we always mentioned the benefits of going to prep school or doing a post-grad year. And one of those is emotional maturity. And, you know, I tell families this, look, when you, whenever you leave home, you're going to get homesick, right? And you'd get through that at prep school. So when you step foot on the college campus, it's, it's not going to be a big deal where your other freshmen teammates and classmates are probably going to be experiencing it. So when you get 160 guys on campus away from home for the first time altogether,

What do you do at Bridgton to kind of get them through the homesickness and get them to bond for the upcoming year?

Whit Lesure (21:38)
Well, I think that's the goal of the orientation program. So it's wading into the water a little bit. ⁓ It's, you know, as you know, first impressions are big. So there's a structure there right away that's in place that they get a sense of, ⁓ you know, hey, here, you know, here are the rules and right here, here's the lay of the land. And I think it's the community working together, which is what has to happen in environments like this, right?

It's the academic community with the residential life community with the athletic community trying to piece the thing together and without making it tedious, right? Because orientation programs can be awful if they're, you so you gotta, you gotta get a lot done in a relatively short period of time and, get, just get the thing moving in the right direction, just like you do with a team, I think. so through that, you know, weekend of a variety of events, really extending into a week.

you know, you're so structured and support, you know, and everyone's keeping their eyes open. And, you know, as far as the homesickness or that piece of it, right, there are some kids that have it, you know, on the drive up here or they, you know, they have it before they get here. And then there's some that it hits while they're here early on, some it's down the line. So we all, know, there's no, you're right. There's, know, but most kids are gonna get it in some form or another and have to get beyond it.

Cory Heitz (23:04)
Right now when you recruit players, you're looking at highlight tapes, you're looking at game film, you're talking to coaches that you know, but really you're not maybe normal years, especially COVID years, you're not seeing these guys in person. Right? So you're, it's, kind of a gamble. it's almost like a fantasy draft when you're picking your guys and they commit to you and then they get on campus and sometimes they're better for you. Sometimes they're not as good. Tell me a story of one of the biggest surprises you've ever had where you recruited a kid.

Maybe you haven't seen him in person, but he gets on campus and just, just wows you.

Whit Lesure (23:37)
Yeah, I mean, the one that jumps out at me, right, is say in my ⁓ second year, really the first, so my first recruiting class, there was a kid from ⁓ New Hampshire by the name of Craig Griffin. He's not a kid anymore. And, you know, he'd obviously looked at New Hampton because he was a New Hampshire kid and this and that. I don't know where else he looked, but, ⁓ you know, basically they...

didn't think he was good enough or didn't think he had everything that maybe they were looking for, whatever that was. So he kind of came up here. And then me having my little New Hampton background and knowing that they didn't quite wanna go with him, right? I did, I'm not afraid of sticking it to someone in a friendly, nice way if I can. ⁓ But I certainly didn't know what we were getting. ⁓

with Craig Griffin, knew what people said about him a little bit. He had no scholarship offers. So, and he, know, strong personality kid, blah, blah. Hey, listen, and he's one of the toughest SOBs I've ever coached. he, know, he, right from day one. And we had some better, ⁓ you know, looking players and maybe even all around skilled guys in that group. And I'll never forget going up to our starting center.

Delvar Barrett who had gone to Ohio U. He was a kid out of Detroit and played for legendary coach Ben Kelso. And I said, hey, Delvar, like, who do you like next to you? You know, like, who do you think should be starting at the four basically? trying to, you know, because I knew what I thought, but I wasn't sure, you know, he was a coach. I liked Griff. And I said, good, me too. But as long as he signed off on it, I said, okay. And

You know, I've got more stories. he, he ran, he set up screen. I mean, he was, you know, Max Good called me up one day with the coaches in the league. Think, you know, Craig Griffin, I said, Max cut it out. And I, know, I, this is, know where I was sitting when he, said, Max, you would love this kid. started laughing. He said, I know you're right. I said, yeah, you would love him. He goes to Merrimack was a four year starter and terrific player, but.

That wasn't easy. I Burt Hamill, God rest his soul, my close, know, no one has been better. know, Burt Hamill, instrumental in my coaching life. And I said, Burt, if you ever listen to one word I've said ever, you take this kid, you take this kid. And so I call that the Griff Clause now.

Like when I have a kid and there's a few coaches that say in New England that know new Craig and kind of know his story. So this kid, had this last year, Sean Trumper is down at Franklin Pierce with David Chadborne. And David has had a guy or two from Austin, this and that, and knew Griff's story because he was from down that way. I said, I said, yeah, I said, hey, David, this is Griff, man. This is Griff all over, slightly like.

you want this kid. texted me about, you know, again, don't want to jinx him, but he texted him, David texted me about two, three weeks ago and he said, Whit, I love him. And I said, good. I thought you would. And didn't have to, you know, didn't have to beat anyone out. I mean, that gets into a whole nother thing about placement, but that that's one like every year, you know, it's just that, that, sticks out to me, but you know, Billy Sheik last year is another guy, a little guy from the West coast out of, you know, Portland and, and

⁓ He ⁓ comes in here and I think he took like six charges in our first practice and our first workout. Okay. Well, yeah, he took more charges in the first week than the previous year's team did all year. I mean that, you know, so.

Cory Heitz (27:29)
That's great. Now about mentioning names, you probably were high on some kids and they came in and they disappointed what, when that happens, what's usually the case? Is it just maybe they look good on tape or they just couldn't handle being away from home or it was teammates not mixing. What's an example of where it doesn't work out? Cause we always talk about success stories, but we got to talk about too, where this isn't for everybody and it doesn't, it's not a guarantee that it's going to work out.

Whit Lesure (27:55)
Yeah, no, it's not. ⁓ I think what happens is somehow, some way, obviously, ⁓ some of what you say is there, right? So, you know, I often say the distraction is no distraction, right? You know, they're put in a unique environment. And so some of the fact that there's not their usual stuff ends up, you know, getting in their way. And so...

it could be some things like that. Okay. It's a failure on my end, maybe to connect with a kid. mean, I think at the end of the day, right. When, when, when the young man connects to, it doesn't have to be me, I don't always have to be the point person, right. But if he connects to me or he connects to the school enough or my assistant coach or, know, but there's gotta be connection. I mean, that's what we got to do as a school. So I think most of the failures come when.

you know, for one reason or another, we don't connect well enough. And obviously sometimes that's on the kid's end for some of the reasons you're talking about, just not ready for it maybe. But sometimes that could be on our end too, on our own failure, my own failure to reach a kid. I could, you know, I mean, I'll tell you one story by name just cause he, know, David T came here, went on to Purdue, he's a top hundred guy and heck of a player, shooting guard.

And ⁓ he got into some trouble late in the year, know, disciplinary stuff. He didn't finish the year here. ⁓ you know, but went on to Purdue and did fine and played overseas. And ⁓ I got a phone call and a text from him about 10 years later. And he said, hey, coach, just want to say thanks. Want to say I'm sorry. You want to, you know, all the stuff that guys do. said, you know, Dave, appreciate it, you know, because the yada yada yada.

⁓ on my end, the truth is true now on my end, ⁓ on that particular team, I, I don't think I did as good a job as I could have. I, know, to with him into the team, I let him take a lot of shots, you know, like I, you know, and he, he was good. And I, and I, I don't, I don't know whether that led to, you know, continuing some poor decision-making on his end off the court. But I, you know, said, God, I know I made a pact with myself that, you know, you just can't let.

guys, you you can't put them in positions where they're going to hurt themselves. So, you know, some of that again, I, you you learn that I always tell the guys, look at they, hopefully learn a lot while they're here and make no mistake about it. We, we certainly do as adults too.

Cory Heitz (30:38)
When you say you want someone that loves the game or is tough, can you tell that on a highlight tape or is that actually come through in conversation or further research?

Whit Lesure (30:46)
I would say that the toughness on in some cases, like there are some tapes where you can watch and say, know, that kid, if that's real, that kid's got a motor, right? You know, and particularly with bigger kids too, you know, sometimes a wing, the way he finishes, trying to think real quick, kid we have this year, you know, a really good player for us, but I was just really impressed on tape.

the way took on contact. Cause I think finishing at the rim is something that most kids going from high school to college are gonna have to improve on. You know, it's just because there's less, there's more contact in the college game. There's bigger bodies, the talent level is more equal at every step, right? And so, you know, I saw that and I went, okay, I mean, my God, I this kid takes on contact. And I happened to be right about that one. So you can see that one. ⁓

love of the game is more maybe it comes through an in-person visit a little bit, right? I mean, that's one of those intangibles that, you know, like again, maybe you get that in a visit, it's not gonna come, maybe, right? Other coaches or people that you'd call, right? To maybe speak to the kid. I've had coaches speak and I say, God, you sound like me, know, kind of a little overdue.

dramatic, I'm talking here, a little serious, but really supportive of the kid. And I go, okay, you're in the same job I am, right? Trying to help guys get to the next place. And if I have a good feel for that coach, and he's saying what he's saying, then I go, okay, I probably like this kid.

Cory Heitz (32:34)
Do know a good example of that is one of your recruits for next year, Michael Wolf from out here in Denver, Colorado. There's a picture of him online is that or pictures. Dad sent me where it snowed out here and was 10 at night and he spent an hour shoveling his driveway to shoot. Right. For me, that's, that's how many kids would do that. Right. That tells me the love of the game right there.

Whit Lesure (32:55)
That's a good picture. That's a nice thing. If you're me, you're happy about that. that's, know, every year, and now, you we'll see what he does, but every year, that's why you want, and you want guys like that. anyway.

Cory Heitz (33:12)
Right, so with that being said, how is this beer this with your current team you have now? How's it been calling coaches on their behalf like? Is this been your most challenging year ever with the placement?

Whit Lesure (33:24)
No, because ⁓ one, I'd say it's exactly what so far now, right? Get back to me in a couple of months, all right? Once we've played a little bit more again, which it looks like we're gonna do and all of that, okay? But I would say it's right where it normally is. There's interest, there's colleges trying to quote, steal. mean, know, there are colleges trying to get in on guys that normally they'd have no chance in heck.

at getting, but they understand they might be able to because ⁓ I'm sure with my kids, I know that my guys home on break right now going, my goodness, what am I doing? Where am I going? I've talked to some parents about that, right? But the truth is, you know, for the last, I don't know what, as many years as I can remember, at this time of year, that's the same thing. Like I've had college conversations at Thanksgiving and leading up to the holiday break in December. And then we come back and the second part of the prep year,

For most of, I don't have guys signed, sealed, delivered coming in. I mean, that's just not part of my landscape. If I did, there'd be no issues, right? But they're all prove it guys. Well, how do you prove it? Getting in front of people or putting a body of work together that suggests, you know, whatever it is that you want. So the body of work so far is, you know, halfway through at best. ⁓ So, you know, we've probably got nervous kids and families. ⁓

But, you know, again, my sense is in the process, we're gonna make some things happen because you know what, I do have a good group of guys, a very good group of guys in fact this year again, right? And I think knock on wood, there's gonna be some homes for them. But you know, again, will it be exactly where every one of them wants to go? Will it be quite at the level? I don't know that yet, you know, but I think it will be for the lion's share of them.

it'll work out. And if it doesn't work out exactly, last time I checked, right, there's people transferring all over the place. So I say, hey, guess what, guys? Marriage isn't final anymore, last time I checked. So I think you've got to go into it all in. I want my guys going in all in. hey, if you get under recruited, go out there and be the player of the year as a freshman. Let the world know you're that good. Guess what? More opportunities open up.

do and we all know it. you know, COVID, you know, I'm going to say this to you too. I don't know who I was talking to recently. COVID is going to be the great out for people, right? So COVID, COVID, COVID, COVID. Hey, look at, know, COVID, you can't COVID away your, you know, next five years. You know, the world moves on, you know, and so you, know, hey, well, COVID that's like, you know, that's similar to the

Cory Heitz (36:10)
Right.

Whit Lesure (36:17)
family that says a little bit too much, know, I just got no exposure. Really? In today's world, no exposure. That's why you didn't get anything because you got no exposure. Are you kidding me? We were in an overexposed world. So I'm not saying that that's never true. I'm just saying I always go, ⁓ I don't know. I don't know about that. And I don't know about the thing that COVID is going to get in the way of everybody. I don't buy it because I know talent wins.

Talent will get where talent needs to get because that's the people above me, right? That's what they're paid to do. They're paid to bring in talent.

Cory Heitz (36:54)
Yeah. And what I've been saying, we've discussed this as well. You and I is that, ⁓ the guys that aren't going to play college basketball in this COVID year probably should have been playing anyway. Right. It's just like the NBA a couple of years ago, they talked about just in theory, getting rid of four teams. We would have got rid of 60 guys that probably maybe shouldn't have been the NBA anyway. And that would have raised the level of the other team. So in theory, D1 should be better. D2 should be better. D3 should be better. So

it should be trimming a lot of fat and for families that don't like this. Well, what I've been saying to them with is your son's had 18 years to work on this. Like this is not just an overnight discovery. Like, yeah, you've had that much time to work on your resume and you can't catch up that quick in basketball unless you have a giant growth spurt. ⁓

Whit Lesure (37:39)
The reason everyone chumps on division three is because there's no division four and no division five. So if we could institute a division four and division five to make room for the, right, billions of folks playing basketball where there are no longer enough roster spots on the college level, would ease things, that would ease things a bit, right? Because that's the truth. There's not enough roster spots.

Division three of the rosters of 18 and 20 that, know, it's so anyway.

Cory Heitz (38:14)
Well, I've always told kids to say I'll find you a spot, but you might be paying full tuition. You might be the 22nd guy in the bench. You invite me to a school in the town of 4000 people in Montana, right? So there's there are spots, but.

Whit Lesure (38:27)
Yeah. And then go prove it. Then go do something with it. That's disappointed me a couple of times. you guy, I'll do anything just da da da da da. And then the guy gets there and doesn't, you know, say doesn't stick it out. It's like, wait a second. We, I thought we said this is what, you know, so that's something that's on the integrity. That's again, that's back to me. You can't get it right every time, but you know, I want solid guys. Our whole thing has been based on solid guys that I can place with college people. They can come to Bridgeton respect, you know, what

The kid has gone through here and done and know what they're getting. So when they get in there, they can deal with a little bit more college ready guys.

Cory Heitz (39:07)
Yeah, thinking about this too is quality of life. You everyone probably you talk to wants to play D1, right? And maybe they go D1, they're playing in a gym with 400 people, they never make it to the tournament or at end of the bench, or they can go to a D3 school, right fit, campus gets behind them, they get some minutes, they make lifelong friends. It's just, and you've probably said this to you've turned blue, but it's all about the right fit.

Whit Lesure (39:30)
Yeah, and I think that's what you say is true for not only players, but it's true for coaches. Pete Carrillo, lucky enough to meet him. We had a kid go to Princeton a zillion years ago. then when I was at UNH, actually, we were at a Michigan State tournament. And I watched an entire game sitting right next to Pete Carrillo, which obviously was my good fortune. And he said, hey, guess what? Because he started out at Muhlenberg, right?

before Princeton, goes, know, last time I checked you, you're not taking trophies to the grave. You know, and he's talking about coaches. So, you you coach where you coach, right? There's good situations, there's great situations everywhere and there's not so great situations everywhere. And so, right, you might have a great situation, division three, might have a great situation, division one, but a great situation, division three is in fact a whole lot better than a-

a worse situation, division one and a good prep school. Look at how many college coaches, former college coaches are sitting in prep school right now talking about the changes, right? I know a lot of these guys reasonably well. You know, it's funny. Some will say, geez, wait, you've got a pretty good life. That looked pretty good. Jerry Quinn seemed to do this thing pretty good. You know, it's kind of, you know, there's a lot of folks that have said, okay, I mean, you know, making that value judgment, right? That it's not necessarily about the level, right? Now that being said, I mean,

you know, hey, go to the highest level you can. I don't begrudge that either. I see it both ways.

Cory Heitz (41:01)
Yeah, well, on some other future podcasts, I, you know, I played D1 struggled, ⁓ but it was my goal my entire life and, ⁓ I had to join the military to do it and had to go fight in the middle of the East and had to take majors. I didn't want to take all to play D1 and, it's, it's, share that with kids all the time. Like really you'll do anything to play D1 and, it's just, it's, it's for everyone. It has to make the individual decision, but a couple more questions and then we'll, we'll wrap up here. But, ⁓ you have been in new England.

coaching is great teams, most of your career who one, who is the best team you've ever played with and two, who's the best player you've ever coached against.

Whit Lesure (41:42)
⁓ well, the, ⁓ the best team we probably had at Bridgton was the old seven team. Paris horn was my current assistant who went on to St. John's and a fabulous career, right? Justin Burrell is over in Japan, killing it and Brian Rudolph. And, and we, we had a heck of a team that, you know, that year and probably the only year of our championship years where you could say, okay, we were, you know,

we were up toe to toe, nose to nose with anyone we play. ⁓ But then you start saying, hey, who are the best teams you've ever played against? my goodness, God. Where do you want to start? So Fletcher, Eric, Fork Union, some of those teams with Kenny Williams, look them up, back to North Carolina, Chris Washburn, you're okay, legendary guy that went on to NC State. I mean, more players than.

You could imagine ⁓ Kevin Keats's teams at Hargrave played them. was a couple of those. Paris's year, my 07 bridging team, we beat Hargrave twice that year. And you go take a look at Hargrave's roster that year. ⁓ That was ⁓ Chris Cheney and I with his old Patterson teams, ⁓ tremendous. Okay. Now let's jump into New England. Andre Drummond.

and Chris, Ed Cota and some of the guys that Jerry Quinn has rolled out. Look at the guys with Golden State, Pachal and the rest of them that, know, he, I'm just doing so well, right? So now we haven't even talked about, we haven't talked about Max Good at Maine Central.

You know, he's another guy that changed the prep landscape up the ante after the Patrick Knight thing. Cause he always, Max always told me with, know, if I had been around when Pat Knight was going to prep school, he would have come to main central. I never told him this, but if you listen to your podcast, you'll hear it. You know, he's probably right. wouldn't have got.

Cory Heitz (43:51)
Well, Max is a friend of ours. So Max was my high school coaches, college coach. And then my cousin, Brad Miller, who played the NBA 14 years, he left his senior year of high school and you know, he probably coached against them up at MCI and that changed, that changed Brad's life and said he would not have made the NBA without that year with Max.

Whit Lesure (44:07)
So Max is tremendous. luckily, you know, luckily he wasn't around when, know, so sorry Max, but, and, and, uh, uh, so I mean, and now some of, uh, uh, Jason Smith's teams at Brewster. mean, you, you got to put them with the best of the best. I mean, there's no question about it. And, know, I mean, I think in these right now, if you're talking about Brewster, then you got to talk about Northfield Mount Harmon, cause they're there, you know, and then, and then you got good old staple.

New Hampton sitting there, one at all last year in New England, who, know, so that that's what I mean. my goodness. When you, when you talk about, ⁓ and by the way, now we're not talking about an awful lot of other good teams and coaches that I swore getting ready for this podcast. said, boy, like, look at, there's a lot of good coaches and a lot of good teams. And so when you say who's the best, Hey, wait, who's the best one you play, whoever we're playing tomorrow, we're going to watch film on them, not to say that I'm the, know, and we're going to figure it out.

because I know there's a lot of good teams and a lot of good coaches out there.

Cory Heitz (45:11)
Yeah. And even on a Tuesday night, you plan a single 18, you got to your guard up too. Yeah. Sure. Nothing happens. Like if you're playing Jay Tilton or someone like that.

Whit Lesure (45:18)
Yeah, John McVeigh and his dad at Brooks, like we were lucky. We got them two years ago, but I think two of the last three we played, they cleaned our clock and they did last. And it's like, my goodness, God. mean, he's, you know, he's, a combination like Brooks. mean, they have a good basketball team. I don't care what league they're in, okay? And they have a commitment at their institution to have a good basketball team. And then, by the way, John and his dad can flat out,

coach, like as good as anybody, right? And better than, know, like I hear, come give me a clinic. Okay. But, ⁓ so there's, there's a, there's a lot of good, and that's exciting. I just saw the Vermont Academy. I'm sad to see Alex go, but John Zal is going to, you know, he's another college guy with NBA experience and all the above going up for Vermont Academy. like, my God. So, you know, he's going to come in and

do whatever it is Vermont Academy wants to do. And, you know, that's going to be a problem for Bridgton.

Cory Heitz (46:21)
Well, I tell you what folks, if you're listening, there's a podcast that Jeff Goodman did this summer where he has went on Jason Smith, John Carroll, Chris Cheney, Kevin Keats, Jerry Quinn, a few others. And it's a round table of just absolute prep school legends. And it only went on for an hour. That honestly could have gone for about four hours and you guys could have tons of stories. But ⁓ to get you out of here with last question, we've been talking a lot of basketball, a lot of prep school, but

In your free time, when you're not coaching or recruiting or hanging out with your family, what are your hobbies? What keeps you busy?

Whit Lesure (46:55)
Right. So I mean, when the weather gets good in Maine, which sometimes takes a while, right? ⁓ I'm on the golf course. I'm not, ⁓ my swing is not one to be copied, but I can grind myself around the course and do okay. ⁓ I think it's a, I love the competitive aspect of golf as any what, know, and I have a job where I can do that some and not feel too guilty about time spent. ⁓ So I really do enjoy what golf.

brings just kind of quiet. It's my brain most of the time. My wife and I binge. I mean, we binge Netflix and prime. And I mean, we're savages. So I almost have to call binging, you know, different shows that we watch a hobby. I'm a workout guy, just right. You get older. So I'm not, you know, trying to set world records, but stay in a routine, you know, physically fit.

feels pretty good. So, read some. You know what, one of the things, right? I'm a college hoop fan, you know, right? Store up games, watch games. When I was at UNH, that's one of the things, I mean, that took enough of a grind where I remember I was in my first year of marriage watching the Final Four and I turned to my wife, right? And said, God, this is like the first game that I've watched. Like, I really was just enjoying the, like having fun.

I realize that, because you end up watching so much tape and so many games that, you know, I mean, I'm not, and I think it's great. College is, I mean, it's the best job going if you got a good, you know, you got a good situation going. I know there's nothing better than college. So don't get me wrong there. But on the other hand, ⁓ this allows enough space that you can, you know, remain kind of a fan of the game and fun of the game. you know, and I know the guys that are doing it right in college, you're able to find that balance too, but it's tricky.

Cory Heitz (48:51)
Yeah, absolutely. But mind you, whenever a job like a Vermont Academy opens up, you've got tons of college coaches that want to get to your level because they can be in charge. It is not as much of a grind as is at the, you know, assistant level at D1 or D2 or D3. So there's very few coveted spots up there and it just, it's just, it shows what the demand when a spot opens up.

Whit Lesure (49:11)
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and again, to do a good job, right? Every job demands its own ⁓ set of instruction. know, they're prep school thing. Everyone will tell you it's not, you know, and I can only speak for the places I've been, there's, you know, every job has its own challenges. Yeah.

Cory Heitz (49:36)
Well, thanks so much for hopping on this morning with me. ⁓ We talked quite a bit. I consider you a friend and it's good to have you on as one of the first guests on the Prep Athletics podcast. ⁓ you got a lot of great wisdom, a lot of great experiences. I'm glad to call you a friend, glad to call you a colleague. And I just can't wait to keep in touch with you and see how things pan out during these unprecedented times.

Whit Lesure (50:01)
Yeah, well, I mean, honestly, maybe it's just the unprecedented times and obviously, you know, with what just gone on this week, I mean, just a kind of a sadness and, know, I think hopefully we're all, you know, getting to a point where we say we can do better, but ⁓ I'm excited, feeling good. Again, we're as good as the guys we get. That's what keeps me going. ⁓ Family life, good, you know, so that's good.

Hobart basketball, getting back to action, that's going to be good for me. And then all the, like the assistant coaches and players, I mean, I appreciate you taking the time to talk to me, but the longer you're in this thing, obviously the more you know, it's the people that you've been lucky enough to be surrounded, the people that have either hired me or supported me and all of that. And I know that. So, and I know, you know, I'm on the back nine, but that doesn't mean I got to fade away either. So we're going to go strong until we can't go strong anymore.

Cory Heitz (50:59)
that sounds good. Well, Whit, thanks so much for joining me. This is Coach Whit Lesure from Bridgton Academy. I'm Cory Heitz. This is the Prep Athletics Podcast. And thank you all so much for tuning in.